Master Later Life Lending - By Air
Welcome to the "Master Later Life Lending" podcast, designed specifically for equity release specialists and mainstream mortgage advisors who serve clients over the age of 50. Hosted by industry veteran Paul Glynn, our mission is to equip you with the knowledge and tools needed to excel in the dynamic world of later life lending.
Each episode features in-depth discussions with leading experts, focusing on the unique financial needs of older borrowers. We tackle key issues such as dispelling myths around equity release, exploring the latest product innovations, and understanding the regulatory changes that impact your practice.
Our goal is to empower you to provide the best advice and solutions to your clients, whether they are traditional equity release customers or emerging younger later life borrowers. By staying ahead of market trends and enhancing your expertise, you can build trust with your clients and grow your advisory practice.
Join us on this journey to mastering later life lending, and ensure you’re equipped to meet the evolving needs of your clients. Subscribe now to stay informed, inspired, and ahead in this crucial segment of financial services.
Master Later Life Lending - By Air
How Can Technology Revolutionise Later Life Lending?
Discover how technology is revolutionising the later life lending landscape with financial services veteran Dave Miller from Fintel. Gain insights into how digital tools are not just enhancing client meetings and document management, but are also offering older customers more flexible, efficient services tailored to their needs. Learn about the growing interest in equity release as a means to sustain living situations, supported by accurate record-keeping and proactive CRM strategies that foresee client necessities.
Our conversation also ventures into the critical synergy between technology and compliance within financial services. We discuss the evolving connectivity in the fintech ecosystem and the importance of early communication in product development to foster seamless innovation. Understand how data capture, robust CRM integration, and flexible approaches — from electronic self-service to traditional interactions — are vital for catering to a diverse advisory population, ensuring that consumers receive top-notch outcomes no matter their tech proficiency.
Finally, we tackle the integration and innovation in financial services, focusing on managing client vulnerabilities and enhancing data precision. Delve into the advancements in equity release processes through API standards, unlocking efficient data flow between platforms and lenders. Dave shares his perspective on balancing data collection for accurate quotations with minimizing burdens on advisors and clients. We also explore how AI-driven tools are simplifying procedures, enhancing engagement, and maintaining impartiality in a competitive market. Tune in to understand how strategic tech integration can lead to superior outcomes for everyone involved.
The Master Later Life Lending Podcast is aimed at qualified advisers in the mortgage or financial services industry.
Welcome to another episode of Master Later Life Lending, the podcast that helps advisors stay ahead of the rapidly evolving later life lending market. I'm your host, paul Glynn, and we're diving into a topic that's resh service and the impact that digital tools can have on client meetings and document management, as well as the challenges that advisors face when integrating new technology into their practices conversation. We've got Dave Miller from Fintel, who's an expert in the use of technology across financial services. Dave will be sharing invaluable insights on how you can use technology to improve client relationships and to streamline your operations. Whether you're already using digital tools or just beginning to explore the possibilities, this episode will provide practical tips to help you adapt to the future of later life lending. Without further ado, let's make a start. Dave, could you tell us a little bit more about you, your background and the organisation you work for?
Dave Miller:Absolutely, paul. Firstly, thank you very much for the opportunity to take part in your podcast. Yeah, I am now in my 45th year in technology. The last 35 plus have been in financial services, looking and working in CRM systems, initially for my system across general insurance, so motor home commercial, vehicle commercial products and then for the last 20 years in life and pensions, with the last 10 of which running the exchange, trigold and XFAM Mortgage as part of Iris' sourcing business. So, yeah, a significant amount of experience in technology. I retired from Iris in June and I've been really fortunate to get a role working for Fintel as a strategic consultant. Fintel, for those unaware, are a leading fintech and support services for business organisation. Lots of familiar brands within the group Simply Biz, 360, defacto and a number of others and they're on an exciting growth trajectory with a mission to simplify and improve UK retail and financial services, acting in the best interests of the market, with a purpose, ideally, of inspiring better outcomes for consumers.
Paul Glynn:Thanks, dave. I mean, I've known the Simply Biz team as it was for a while and it's been really fascinating to see the way that that organization has acquired new businesses and the way that that organization has acquired new businesses, um, and, and the way that they're adjusting to what's becoming quite an interesting technology landscape and financial services. So be really good to see some of that come out as we. We uh ask each other, I think, questions as we, we go through this session.
Paul Glynn:So, um, I think, from an air perspective, what we tend to see in our relationship with our members is people join as individuals. They start to use air sourcing as probably the nominated person in that business to be involved in later life lending, and then, as that business flow grows, more people join the platform. The relationship becomes one that's with a firm, and then that opens up a raft of different types of questions with the firm around the technology that they're using, how they can harness it to make it more efficient. So, um, and it gets really, really interesting on how you can develop a relationship with a firm from there. So, just thinking through, uh, how we get into this now, so what, what role from your perspective, um, with that kind of relationship in in air and that kind of a wider landscape in in relation to firms. What role does technology play in helping those firms deliver um better products and services to older customers?
Dave Miller:yeah, I. I think technology is fundamental. There's no doubt about it. It absolutely can help firms deliver better products and services, not just to older customers but to all customers. And I think, as we've seen the equity release landscape change, it's starting to bring a greater number of potential clients into that market.
Dave Miller:The key to success for any firm is how you engage with your clients, recognizing that flexibility is key, because not every consumer wants to be dealt with in exactly the same way, whether it's face-to-face, whether, if they are totally digitally competent, they want to do everything themselves and then anywhere in between, and I think for advisor firms, and particularly off the back of consumer duty as well, how you've got systems that can support that interaction is fundamental. And then you know, I was reading a piece yesterday that LV have done on wealth and well-being research and just looking at you know, 11% of mortgage holders would consider ER as an option in the future if it meant that they could stay where they are at all to fund their health and care requirements in the later life. And similarly, then the one in three would absolutely consider if it meant they didn't have to downsize or move home. So I think, looking at later life lending, absolutely key that you're looking at the consumers that qualify for it now, but, from an advisor point of view, don't forget what's going to come downstream in 10, 15, 20 years time.
Dave Miller:And then the key behind all of that is data. So having a system that you can record your data accurately provides you the mechanisms to cleanse that data on a regular basis. The onus, you know, no matter how good the system is, the onus is always on those using it to keep that data up to date. So that is absolutely important. But I think, from that point of view, making sure that the reporting, the proactiveness of the system, with prompts and things like that, are all key indicators for an advisor firm to consider when they're looking at the right CRM platform. Because, let's be honest, as we both know, there's a plethora of ones out there, you know, ranging from very good and very expensive all the way, you know, downstream.
Paul Glynn:So it's picking the right one that is is going to be right for your business now and in the future, depending on what your overall you know business requirements and budget are, because that's, you know, not worry about it, but cost is an important factor in that respect yeah, I think it is interesting to think that you know, if you back to that case study where it's a typical air member, where you know the relationship's one that it's the one person in the office that then gets involved in in later life lending, then that office is already probably running on a mortgage platform. There might be a crm in the background already. Um so, so there is a wider consideration in terms of a broad set of tools to make that journey work.
Dave Miller:I think that's a very interesting point because Fintel did some research that showed on average, an advisor will use nine different pieces of software to do the advice journey, you know, with different user IDs, different passwords, sometimes having to enter data more than once, and probably more than twice if you're using that many. So I think having a system that can integrate with as many parts of the journey that the advisor needs to go through is critical and that, wherever possible, data is being transferred back and forth accurately so that you're not having to rekey. You're saving time and that means you've got more time to advise your clients on their requirements and what's in the best interest for them longer term from a product perspective.
Paul Glynn:Yeah, it's definitely interesting, if you start to think back then, that, as you've just touched on, there could be nine different bits of kit in each business. It could be a different nine. Um, yeah, so I would. We can definitely validate that in air. We're starting to see more and more now people coming back to us to say love the service, but can you integrate it with my back office? Can you you know? Can we have this part of a tool to go on a website?
Dave Miller:so people are thinking more and more about the journey as a whole rather than just one component part yeah, I think the other aspect is and you know, coming back to your um, your example you know many of these advisors and firms are DAs and therefore they have the complete choice over what they want to use. And, as I found over many years, getting advisors to change from the system that they've used and know and love is very difficult. And that whole know and love is very difficult and that whole transition and adoption piece of moving to a new piece of kit is a challenge and has been a challenge for the industry for a very, very long time. So we need to find ways to address that. That can be, as I said, coming back to having better integrated systems where data is transferred back and forth much more seamlessly. Or it's a case of how do you provide systems that are as intuitive as possible, as easy to use? That would mean it becomes a no-brainer.
Dave Miller:We all know when we get the next version of our phone and Apple have updated the software, they go, they've changed that. And the first thing you explain semi-expletive, because I used to like the way that worked same with everything else. You know everything is changing, whether it's a new version of windows, excel, whatever. So you know you have to bear in mind from a advisor and a user's point of view, got to make that as easy as possible, and I think the key for many CRMs and sourcing systems is how much flexibility can you build into your product that enables the advisor firm to control as much of that as possible, because that then gives them much better flexibility in how they can engage with their clients.
Paul Glynn:As long as it does all the fundamental aspects, I think that that would be a great result for the firm that can achieve that first yeah, I agree with that and I think you know we've seen a firm principles grapple with consumer duty over over the you know, the last 18 months or so, and a cool part of that is them documenting their journey, wanting to refine it, and I think some of the things you're describing there are definite evolution and we should embrace it.
Paul Glynn:So we're seeing, you know, that next phase of conversation from someone who comes in just to want to source in air to then consume more services, it should be a natural next step that that firm wants to integrate that um technology into a wider advice process. So we'd see that as a compliment rather than something to to worry about. But it does create different challenges in the firms themselves. So, um, but if we we just go go back a step and and we've talked a little bit about um the kind of general role and and themes as far as advisory businesses are concerned around tech- I think we shouldn't um forget as well the role it can play in in the lender and product manufacturer space.
Paul Glynn:So, um, you know, quick, quick questions, just to develop that theme a bit further. So how, how do you think that FinTech is now able to influence or support on activity in terms of quotations and transactions?
Dave Miller:And I certainly think that fintech suppliers, whether it's CRMs or sourcing systems, who can assist manufacturers, lenders, in design of product by providing this data in whatever form is most appropriate, I think, can really help product design. You can always provide some exaggerated example about well, let's add shoe size into a system, because everybody who's size 13 and above might be rated for some illness because it's a well-known fact. But actually thinking about what factors may be important from a product design or what features will be applicable, actually, why not use data that's already there within the industry and actually feed that back in there within the industry and actually feed that back in, and, I think, within a manufacturing environment you've got the fact. Then you know underwriters, product designers and distribution working together to actually go well. Yeah, those are really good ideas, but actually if 85% of the market isn't going anywhere near that, then what's the point? So I think using data that's available from technology partners is certainly one way that they can help product design.
Dave Miller:I think the other aspect is fintech firms have lots of relationships with their key advisors, getting feedback from them on what they they like to see from product innovation, and things like that, I think, are also really key points from that perspective and I think you know being open about what you are thinking from a manufacturing point of view as early as possible in the process is also quite key, because you know I've seen many a time previously that you know manufacturer has a great idea, but it needs a new data item in order that they can rate on it or underwrite on it.
Dave Miller:And actually that data item's got to be captured, it's got to be stored in a CRM, it's got to be transmitted back and forth from a message point of view in order that you can get the correct quotation returned. And, equally as important, the lender's own system has got to be ready to support it when it comes through in the new business process. And, as we've seen ourselves in projects that we've done, that's not always a seamless journey and can end up taking longer than anybody thinks. So I think, yeah, I think those are the three key things you know use of data, engagement from a market perspective and then being as open as possible early on in the process and you know, if necessary under nda or whatever. But I think that tech firms can be providing much more insight into where a product provider's going.
Paul Glynn:And standards have come a long way over the years to support the ecosystem connect itself a lot better.
Dave Miller:Yeah, and, to be fair, sorry, yeah, the data item needs to be available to be sent in the standards if it's there. So, yeah, you can always find a way sometimes if it's just one partner to shoehorn a piece of data into a message. But for any long term initiative, yeah, you need the standards body on side as well, and that's quite key. And, yeah, as we found when we developed the actual release standards. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of insight and input that fintech firms can do to assist manufacturers, and we I've done it previously, I have colleagues who've done that so, yeah, I think it's really valuable as part of that design phase.
Paul Glynn:I think you know, as I said before, it's definitely something that we're seeing more and more from our core member customer base, where you know it has effectively got three aspects to the way it operates in the market it's a technology platform for sourcing, it's an aggregator in the sense of it's got a club heritage, a mortgage club heritage, and it's an educator in the way that it supports our academy proposition. But all of that is underpinned by tech and some people want bits of it and some people want all of it, and I think we should embrace supporting firms build the best journey.
Dave Miller:Yeah, that's obviously the other way that you can get to a wider market is it's not a one size fits all. You've got to be able to componentize, where possible, parts of your offering and I think if you can do that, then you get to a greater breadth in terms of the advisor population, and that's all you know. As part of any design in terms of new product or even product enhancements, thinking about how people are going to consume your technology is absolutely key.
Paul Glynn:Yeah, I think, thinking about the consumption of technology and if we sort of talk about crm and data and some of the things we've, we've uh covered already what, what is it that we need to look at and think about? Because it's an older audience consuming it. So any anything that you can share on that?
Dave Miller:I think the older audience is an interesting view. Obviously, it's correct factually. But some older people are very comfortable and confident and tech savvy. And then you'll have another extreme who don't want to touch tech for no matter how much you might consider it's a benefit to them. And then you've got those who've got access to tech but are not technically competent or, you know, not as comfortable using things. So again it comes back to, from an advisor point of view, how you use your own technology to address all of those, because you're not going to want to go all right, I'm only going to ever deal with older people who are technically competent, because straight away you eliminate, and certainly in a later life lending environment, eliminate probably a larger proportion of people who are likely to take that product out.
Dave Miller:So it all comes back to flexibility of approach, flexibility of your system. So you're either engaged for those who are technically competent, engaging with people totally electronically, providing options for them to, you know, self-serve as much as possible. You know, if you've got a, a portal where they can, you know, lodge documents, send emails, capture information, is all absolutely key. But then you've got the other extreme where, if they're not confident at all, it's a face-to-face or over the telephone engagement, which is more time consuming. But you know, the key is is the consumer getting the right outcome, and so, no matter what it takes to actually address that, the advisor, supported by their tech, has got to be able to do it. So are you able to record calls and maybe get those calls automatically transferred into your CRM as a result of some software?
Dave Miller:Well, yeah, why not? You're saving yourself having to key in all the important facts, but you're still addressing the need of the consumer and how they want to engage with you and their technical competence. So I think, yeah, that's quite fundamental in that respect, and you know, in many respects that probably plays down the ages as well, because you know there are still, you know, you know middle-aged I'll still call myself middle-aged, although I'm probably nearer the wrong side now yeah, that there are certain systems I'm not totally confident with. You know the stuff, I know and do it's easy. But you know, as a user, you have to find time and spend effort to actually work out how to use something properly. So that applies no matter what piece of software you use it.
Paul Glynn:Yeah, I think the core bit of that is it's it is being able to adapt based on the competence or the comprehension of the person that you're dealing with. So that probably helps us touch on another element that technology can support with. So what, what role do you think tech can play in um helping ensure that you comply with the regulations, or you're considering things like affordability, or teasing out the right challenge, challenging them on the right things for affordability, or or even vulnerability?
Dave Miller:that's a really interesting question. Um, I think part of it comes back to having the right processes in place. There's an advisor firm. You're capturing the right data and making sure that's being regularly updated. So, if you have got clients who you know you've got concerns over affordability, you've done your credit checks and things like that, then making sure you've got a mechanism and things like that, then making sure you've got a mechanism on your system to be able to report on that and flag it and continually review. That is quite key. Same goes for vulnerable persons. Having that identified.
Dave Miller:What is the vulnerability? Because, depending on what that that is, you may need to have, you know, extra qualified advisors engaging with them. You may need to provide documentation in a totally different manner to what you do for your you know your normal customers in that respect. So I think there's there's different ways that tech can help provide that. The key is having you know. You can have the best system in the world, but if the data in it isn't accurate and up to date, it's no good to anybody and I think that's the you know. The one thing that you know I would continually be recommending to advisors is you know, make sure your system's up to date from a data point of view. Regularly cleanse that data so that you're not holding on to anything you don't need from a regulatory point of view or audit point of view. And then, obviously, where you have got potential vulnerable clients or affordability, having those flagged and clearly reviewed on a regular basis, yeah, and there's plenty of systems out there that can support with that vulnerability piece.
Paul Glynn:I mean we've got Comentus within our Air platform, but Morgan Ash and others do similar things. So plenty of opportunity for tech to augment the compliance that firms need to follow. Just want to revisit the integration theme again for a minute. You and I have been on a number of different industry forums over the years where we've talked about APIs and that kind of message standard. Certainly, we've seen I think we're about to onboard our very, very last lender as an API in it At last, which is it's going to be brilliant, which means, then, that we've got a message flow from air through to the lender and back again. That means the rates are accurate, assuming the data's inputted correctly. Back to your point earlier. But that does then give us quite a solid platform to think through onward integrations of the same data, but looking at ways we can streamline the process. So have you got any thoughts on how you know innovation can drive and improve those processes further off?
Dave Miller:So with you know what is. I don't know however many lenders are in the equity release space now seven, eight. You know we started the project in 2019. And you know it's taken five years for everybody pretty much, to adopt that standard, get those systems in place, adopt that standard, get those systems in place and all of that sort of activity always takes a lot longer than anybody thinks.
Dave Miller:There are various other priorities that come in or get in the way of what's happening. So I think it's really great. You know we started with quotes, got real-time quotes being done. So you know, as a lender, they can change their own rates. That's up to date on the system. They don't have to wait, albeit not very long, for any sourcing system to update them.
Dave Miller:Moved on to key features, illustrations, and that meant there was extra data required to be captured at certain parts of that process and then on to new business supply. So I think if all equity release lenders are now at that point, or virtually at that point, as you say, I think that's a massive tick in the box. It also means that any new lender coming to market, that has to be the minimum benchmark for them coming, which I think is also really good. I think next it's okay. Are there other data items, other process flows that are happening in each lender's back office post receiving the new business application that could be bought further forward? So you know, when we did annuities we put all the medical underwriting questions into the, the quote engine and had that available as part of the the new business message um did you think we could end up with property underwriting being in the message?
Dave Miller:well, potentially, you know, it depends how far you want to go and where you end up integrating um equity release, um.
Dave Miller:So I think if you if it is because there's this whole debate around you know you've got to use data, it's got to have a purpose for why you're receiving it. So if you're just capturing data for potential future use, that's not really um valid. So you, yeah. If there is data that could be transmitted as part of the message that potentially enhances the process for the advisor upfront and provides a consumer with a quicker journey to a result, and therefore you know, either releasing funds or going on risk, then yeah, why wouldn't anybody look at that as a process? So, yeah, if there are simple health questions in equity release quote at the minute, why not extend that to a lower level? Again, doing it for one lender doesn't really provide the great return from an advisor point of view, because the sourcing systems they're going to have to show some form of differentiation, that this lender's taking all that into account but actually the rest haven't. Um, you know you need a number to support from day one, but that's an example.
Paul Glynn:Uh, yeah, I think there's three lenders in the market at the moment that are using the med data. Um and it does get to. It absolutely gets to a personalized position, whether that's the advisor being able to ask those questions and drive a better LTV, or ask those questions and drive a notable discount in the rate.
Dave Miller:All of it is again.
Dave Miller:it's all consumer duty friendly, but a number of those questions will have potential sub questions. That could mean you could actually provide a more accurate quotation and therefore maybe not, as it might not be as much a discount on the overall price, but it's more accurate and from an underwriter's perspective, that risk is being assessed even more accurately than it is at the moment. So there's that balance. There's always a balance between how much data is relevant to the quotation journey and getting the individual on risk versus how much time and effort an advisor then has to put into getting that data captured Because, as we found with annuities very early on, some clients are not as comfortable in sharing all of that medical information.
Paul Glynn:Yeah, I suppose it's been able to explain to the customer what the benefit would be. Yeah, very much so it's understanding when to use that in the process. I suppose if we did get extended to property underwriting or using wider information to augment the process, then it's helping the advisor understand when to use it. So we do see on any given customer advisor building a picture as they move through different appointments. So we might see a quick or very light full sourcing session. Quick, quite awful sourcing session, used early before the first appointment to assess the rates, particularly if it's an advisory isn't in the market yeah, frequently I think there's probably more air could do in that space to make that easier.
Paul Glynn:If that's what they're they're looking for, particularly as product numbers are increasing and becoming more complex. Then we see people build a better picture as they go into the property to meet the customer. They then start to be able to ask those health questions and then there'll be a bit of refinement through the journey. So I suppose we would use flood check in part of what we do. There could be opportunities to provide some efficiencies and a better journey for the customer and the advisor, but also for the lenders at the back, because no one wants to see an app turn into a decline.
Dave Miller:No, and the same applies to property valuations. There's a value given as part of that quote process that needs to be validated and checked at some point. Is it possible to do that earlier in the process?
Paul Glynn:during covid we used avi. I was going to say yeah it's the right shout.
Dave Miller:There are ways to do these things again. How can you get all of that integrated into a seamless process that makes it easier for you, the, the lender, who's taking the business and, at the end of the day, the consumer, because that's the key bit.
Paul Glynn:So we talked about the importance of the data and how firms are using multiple platforms. We talked about the APIs that are in place, given a bedrock to be able to build those integrations, and how that message standard could develop further into the later life journey. Can you see collaboration between different sourcing and workflow and CRM platforms as we see one evolving later life lending market that's got equity release at one end of the spectrum and mainstream lending at the other, because there's a lot of parties involved in that there is, I think.
Dave Miller:Um, there's a couple of key aspects. Obviously, you know, lng introduced the products you know back earlier this year, back end of last year, where the qualifying age is is 50. Others have now followed suit, obviously, obviously, so that straightaway brings the equity release market much more into the mainstream mortgage market. We obviously got RIOs that run alongside that as well. So I think from a and if you look at it from a pure consumer duty angle, if you've got a client who's 50 plus one of your, depending on what it is they are asking for, part of your process might be that you have to be looking at how do I compare doing a remortgage versus a reo, versus a release in equity in my home? And is it a sourcing system, you know, is it one mortgage sourcing system that integrates with a equity release sourcing system in order to provide one set of results? Is it actually a CRM that does, integrates with both and pulls the results back? And the key for an advisor firm is well, how do you sort, how do you compare those products side by side? Because that's quite key.
Dave Miller:There's obviously a total cost of loan in all of those aspects and that's obviously one of the factors that potentially could play in there. But again, from an ideal point of view, you need the advisor firm to be able to say right, I always want to see in that scenario firm to be able to say right, I always want to see in that scenario equity release versus you know first, then mortgage, then Rio, or whichever way is suitable to them. Or actually can you show it side by side? So I think there is, there is that option.
Dave Miller:You or you either end up in the situation where your mortgage sourcing systems end up having to move into the extra release space, or they end up having to move into the equity release space, or they end up having to move into the mortgage sourcing space and straight away. That adds a lot of cost and effort in terms of you know, to the solutions you know both already provide. So collaboration and integration would somehow seem to be the better outcome. Or, as I say, do you, you know, know somebody with a crm actually do that integration and work out how to show those results? So serving.
Paul Glynn:It's serving up the information at a point in journey in the journey. That's right for that advisor, yes, and drives the right outcome for the customer. Whether that's one sourcing system or one journey, with two sourcing systems being served up at the right time, yeah, obviously it plays out yeah, I think so.
Dave Miller:Obviously, the one potential downside with that is obviously the more equity release moves into the mainstream market. Then, from a regulation point of view, you're looking at the whole size of that market which all of a sudden you know is I don't know, you know 25, 40 times the size. So actually, from a focus point of view from the regulator, that might throw up one or two things. But, um, I think certainly you know, if you're in that 50 to 60 bracket, all of a sudden there's a different option available to you, depending on why you may be looking to remortgage particularly.
Paul Glynn:So I think it's something that's you know has to be looked at and you know the onus is on tech suppliers to find easy, easy ways and efficient ways for an advisor to be able to deal with both yeah, yeah, and that's something that we've, you know, we've seen surface through our campaign for comprehensive conversations, where it's absolutely the right of that DA principal or a network center to decide what part of the market they want to play and what that proposition looks like as wide or as narrow as they want it to be appropriately and decide whether or not.
Paul Glynn:If they're not, if they're not going to offer an expanded set of advice services as a mortgage broker or as an equity release specialist, then you should definitely build the right referral routes. And, yeah, and I think having a journey that can help signpost that using technology is is equally as important. That's where our navigator tool came from. Um, I'm going to put you on the spot. That's, that's all right. Yeah, always as we get to the end of this conversation. So how do you see technology reshaping the later life lending market over the next two to three year?
Dave Miller:horizon. It's like have a crystal ball and guess, isn't it? I think, first of all, we've got you. There's always the specter of what's going to come out of the budget and is more regulation and more compliance going to deter innovation and further integration? So you know, when I was running the sourcing business for Iris, you're always aware that there's that potential that all of a sudden can you know, drive a steamroller through your project plans for the next six months if something's going to come downstream. And you know there's this pure protection that the fca have just announced they're looking into, so that might have some bearing on what work, uh, protection sourcing systems have to do going forward. Um, I I think, I think we will.
Dave Miller:I think the key thing is, as we've talked about already, greater integration has got to be paramount. Um, I do think somehow there's got to find a, a means, particularly for that 50 55 age bracket, about making sure you are offering the right products to them, or at least giving them all the things to think about, because, in it, if you don't do that from a consumer duty world, you're, you're failing, you're not doing that or, as you say, refer it elsewhere if it's something you don't don't want to deal with um. I think there's got to be improvements in the process from point of application to release of funds and getting the um you know process completed, um and you know whether that's, you know, greater integration with the solicitors or valuers or anything like that to help prove that process because in the pensions world you've got the options process yeah, you, you have, which has been a massive improvement to that process.
Dave Miller:So I think there are ways to improve it and I think that's something that needs to be looked at. I don't know the precise timeframe for each of these on average, but with technology as it is now and with all the capability available, as you referenced earlier in COVID, when valuations were being done, you know, over Zoom or Teams then you know have we slipped back into some of the pre-COVID ways and things are taking longer. You know solicitors there was always a backlog then within solicitors to get stuff through. Is there better means to integrate systems from that point of view, even if it's just from an information exchange of where things are, that stops a consumer having to ring up and go where is it that the advisor's got the exact picture they can be updating, whether it's via SMS or email? They're actually right. This is where it is. This is when we're expecting it to be closed. So there's lots of things like that.
Dave Miller:I think Data, greater use of data, I think will come more and more. There's a massive amount out there. As I said earlier before this recording, I was with the guys at DeFacto this morning. They've got an enormous amount of data that they're looking to find better ways to engage with manufacturers on. So I think you know there will be a greater emphasis on using data to not just, you know, design and influence products.
Dave Miller:But actually, where are the pinch points in the process and how do you simplify some of those? Is anybody actually looking at the average time it takes from the point of view the KFI is generated to the time that an application goes on risk, and how do you simplify some of those? Is anybody actually looking at the average time it takes from the point of view the kfi is generated to the time that an application goes on risk, and where do you short circuit that and what are the issues that prevent it from being done more timely? And then you've got the whole ai debate. Yeah, um, you know I think there are there's chat bots and avatars already now in various parts of the process, both in protection and in other financial segments. So you know, should be the top of a lot of organizations hit lists. To simplify, that helps advisor if I can go through right.
Dave Miller:I want to search all the. You know equity release lenders, you know policy documentation for this criteria. Pull it out into a simple summary so I can show to my consumer there and then, well, there you go that's that you were really concerned about that aspect.
Dave Miller:There is each, each lender and where their stance is on this position. So I think you know that sort of stuff. It needs to be done in a controlled fashion and step by step, rather than you know you go from there to there in one go because you've got to get advisors and consumers comfortable with those changes. So those are the main things that I would look to see over the next two, three years integration, data and starting to see AI used much more in that process. But, as you put me on the spot, can I sort of just reverse the tables a little bit?
Paul Glynn:As a guest. You are more than welcome, to put me on the spot. So.
Dave Miller:I think one of the key question on probably certainly a number of advisors' lips and probably a number of lenders, is how does air, as part of a wider group with key and standard life to a certain extent, um, ensure its impartiality from, uh, what you do, what your priorities are, where you focus your resources when you have multiple lenders all wanting to do things at the same time? You know, pure and advice wise, they're in the same boat, but they're not in the room, so I'll ask you.
Paul Glynn:That's. I think it's a fair question and it's one that that does come up. I think, um, from an air perspective, our independence is really important. Um, our relationships with lenders are contractual, so there's a really robust contract process that sits behind our sourcing platform. Our board has to attest to its independence as part of our board process and I would say that, if we go back to our heritage, our sourcing platform has been built off of our user stories.
Paul Glynn:So, trying to stay true to that, we have implemented a series of steering committees, so there's a lender one, where there's lenders sat on that that can start to engage with us on what they see as their horizon scan, um, and what air should be thinking about.
Paul Glynn:We can use them as a, as a test bed, for if we want to change things, like quick quote, for example, then we should really think through, from a lender lens, what, what impact that has. We've implemented a specialist advisor firm, steerco, recognizing that they've got volume needs. So if it's things like integrations or things their compliance teams are picking up, that we should have thought for, then that Steerco inputs into our development program. We've got a similar one for networks right, and again they can, and we ask for the compliance officers for those networks to sit on that steer co, which means we're taking a proper horizon scan for what is ultimately going to land from the regulator. So, yeah, those those, those kind of wider conflicts are there in the background, but we've got the right process in place to always a challenge dealing with them.
Dave Miller:I love a question dave, thank you, um my pleasure, I'll take any of this.
Paul Glynn:No, no, no no, no, I know, but thank you for that. Um, and then one final one to finish on. So you and I have both had relationship management roles and we talk about technology. We talk about technology. We talk about it saving time. How should firms balance that drive to digital with the need for face-to-face personal contact, Because we know that from day to day it's really important, but with an end customer, particularly an? Older one it's even more important.
Dave Miller:That's, I think, a really challenging one. I think it's very different in the's, I think a really challenging one. You know, I think it's very different in the roles that we've done in the past. Um, I think, where you, I think so part of it is, you know, as an advisor firm. You know how many clients have I got, or how many potential clients, consumers segmenting that to actually work out? Okay, these are very comfortable in a technology contact arrangement. These want a little bit of, you know, telephone from time to time, but largely they're happy with you know, electronic updates and things like that. And this group need face to face. And then you've got to work out well, how many advisors have I got? How do I segment this group to maximize the engagement with them?
Dave Miller:And as part of your engagement with them is the key. We used to do it when we used to engage with providers, and this is a purely commercially focused view of the consumer and what they need. Okay, how many are talking about doing something? But actually you know pretty well there's nothing going to materialize in the next 12 to 18 months. It's the same when you're doing a sale, isn't it? Which of these are? Yep, they're taking up some time, but actually there's something really key that they're going to do something and actually they really need to do something. And actually they really need to do something and part of my role as an advisor is to identify for them what is the best option to you know, in a later life world. You know, generate the funds from either releasing an amount on the home or some other manner, and then you've got these are actually they want to be seen face-to-face, but actually they're quite light touch.
Dave Miller:There is some value there, and part of that comes back to the data you have is then recording all of that and making sure that you continually review that segmentation and alter it and change it based on the advisors that you have. Same as any process around selling or engaging with clients. Around selling or engaging with clients, the key element that probably overlays all of that is making sure that there's not a potential vulnerable client or something like that that slips through the net. So it is all about the data you hold about your client. You need your CRM. It comes back to that whole CRM question. You need your CRM up to date and it's not just that it's up to date but you then somebody is overseeing that data that's in there and is running proactive reports that then are identifying potential clients that they need to follow up on, and there is no other way around it. That's the task of looking after clients whose monies and products you cover.
Paul Glynn:Thanks, dave. I think there's a lot of takeaways for me in this conversation, so thank you, alec.
Dave Miller:I really appreciate the opportunity. Hopefully it's been useful. Hopefully a few people have found some of the content very relevant and, yeah, look forward to seeing it on air or very soon.
Paul Glynn:Okay, I think what we've seen in this session is data is really important. I think we've seen huge strides in the way that advisors now can have a choice of different platforms to build the journey that they want. I think it won't replace advisor intelligence. It creates room for advisor interaction with customers. Things like AI can be used to better nurture customers whilst the advisor is spending time at the right point in time. No, I think that's absolutely key.
Dave Miller:Don't be afraid of the technology, because it's always going to constantly change. And find the right solutions that give you, as an advisor, more time to advise and spend with your clients. Simple as that.
Paul Glynn:Thanks, dave. I'm really looking forward to seeing what materializes from the Fintel family of companies in the fintech space over the next months and years.
Dave Miller:Yeah, well, keep watching, because it's going to be exciting.
Paul Glynn:Thank you for coming in today, much appreciated.
Dave Miller:Thanks, Dave.
Paul Glynn:Thanks for listening to the Master Later Life Lending Podcast. If you've enjoyed our comprehensive conversations, please take a moment to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Your support helps others discover the show. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode, and follow us on social media for exclusive content. Join us next time for another comprehensive conversation.