Master Later Life Lending - By Air
The "Master Later Life Lending" podcast is designed specifically for equity release specialists and mainstream mortgage advisors who serve clients over the age of 50. Hosted by industry veteran Paul Glynn, our mission is to equip you with the knowledge and tools needed to excel in the dynamic world of later life lending.
Each episode features in-depth discussions with leading experts, focusing on the unique financial needs of older borrowers. We tackle key issues such as dispelling myths around equity release, exploring the latest product innovations, and understanding the regulatory changes that impact your practice.
Our goal is to empower you to provide the best advice and solutions to your clients, whether they are traditional equity release customers or emerging younger later life borrowers. By staying ahead of market trends and enhancing your expertise, you can build trust with your clients and grow your advisory practice.
Join us on this journey to mastering later life lending, and ensure you’re equipped to meet the evolving needs of your clients. Subscribe now to stay informed, inspired, and ahead in this crucial segment of financial services.
Master Later Life Lending - By Air
Adapting to Change: Navigating the New Landscape
In this episode of Master Later Life Lending, host Will Hale speaks with Nathan Waller (Family Building Society) and Ashley Edwards (Just Mortgages) about how advisers, firms, and networks are responding to rapid changes in the later life lending market.
They discuss evolving client needs, navigating Consumer Duty regulations, generating new business, and how to adopt technology while maintaining personalised advice. Packed with practical tips and real-world strategies, this is a must-listen for any adviser working in the later life space.
Welcome to Master Later Life Lending, the podcast where we explore the latest trends, challenges and opportunities in the later life lending market. I'm your host, will, and whether you're an equity release specialist or a mainstream mortgage advisor, this show is designed to help you stay ahead of the curve as you navigate the unique needs of older clients. In this episode, we're asking the question how are advisors, firms and networks navigating the evolving later life lending market? To explore this, we're joined by Ashley Edwards from Just Mortgages and Nathan Waller from Family Building Society to discuss how they're navigating the evolving later life lending market, sharing their experiences, challenges and strategies for ensuring good outcomes and generating business in an ever-changing environment.
Speaker 1:So let's begin. So, guys, with no further ado, let's jump straight into the question. So, nathan, I'm going to come to you first. Um, I think one feature of our market is that it's constantly evolving. So how are you sort of seeing the trends in the later life space and, and how is it impacting the way that you, as family building society, think about your business and your products and how you sort of step up to serve customers and advisors?
Speaker 2:Yeah, as you mentioned, the later life market is constantly evolving. We've been lending to customers past retirement on a capital interest and interest only basis for a long period of time but we are seeing there has been a bit of a shift for the reason for those types of debts rather than it necessarily being just a necessity or keeping that mortgage into their retirement. It's things such as joint borrower, sole proprietor, where there's an aspirational want or an assistance to help the younger generation as well by coming onto the mortgage and kind of adding their income to the pot, rather than waiting until the very last minutes where it's more inheritance basis and saying, well, once I've passed away, here's the money that you can have. It's well, let's get you into that property Now.
Speaker 2:Affordability is significantly tighter for the younger generation as well. So adding those extra incomes to support the borrowing, rather than them buying a flat, could mean they can aspire to buy a house and like we'll probably be seeing really from now onwards, with higher stamp duty bills for the younger generation as well, why buy twice when you think you're going to move in a couple of years? You might as well just buy now and they're being helped with those older borrowers, or it's the other way around where they may, the older boys may not actually have an income to stay in their home and the kids help them out on that side of things um, and the bank of mum and dad, bank of nan and granddad, where they're actually raising the money on their own property to then pass down as a gifted deposit. So there's a raft of changes and a raft of needs out there for the older generation.
Speaker 1:So, nathan, a lot of that sort of resonates with what we see as air, certainly. And Ashley, what about on your side? So just mortgage, I mean you must see a wide range of different sort of customers. How, how are you thinking about the later life lending market and and how you evolve your advice processes and systems to cater for customer needs in this space?
Speaker 3:I'd agree entirely. I think it's um a marketplace I would describe it of people who are struggling. Really, you know, we've got an immense amount of debt consolidation that's coming through the later life lending. At the minute, it seems to be everything that we're doing, which kind of makes sense, really, when you think about covid, was what five years ago now? Um, you know, interest rates went up a couple of years ago, didn didn't they? And all we're seeing now are people that are I need some help, really. I've come to the end of my mortgage term or, you know, my finances are not in the state that I would want them to be at at the age that I'm at now, and I need some help. And these are the queries that we're getting. We're not doing so much moving house on later life lending. It is mostly first time later life lending and a lot of it involved with people who who are struggling, which of course, adds to their vulnerability, which is, again, a very popular area of later life anyway, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, actually. It's interesting, though, that you mentioned vulnerability, because I think it sort of feeds into the next question which I was going to ask, which is around regulatory scrutiny. I think you know we've seen quite a lot of regulatory scrutiny in this market. The FCA did their review on advice in the equity release space, sort of 18 months, two years ago now, and then we also saw a dear CEO letter to all mortgage intermediaries talking about the consideration of more options, so certainly an area the regulator is focused on. But then I suppose on the flip side, we saw some really encouraging words from the CEO of the FCA, sort of at a JP Morgan conference about 10 days ago, again just talking about the importance of later life lending and helping people with their retirement needs. So I suppose you know how do you balance those two things the regulatory scrutiny and the focus on outcomes, but also sort of trying to engage more customers and helping more customers sort of with the opportunity in this space? How do you balance that, ashley, within your business?
Speaker 3:Well, we've got what I believe is a really good way of approaching, keeping customers safe and I think, as with anything, if it's positioned in the right way, it's actually a really good tool, you know, for their confidence, really. So we check every single case that our team do. There are none that fall through the cracks in any way, shape or form. We look at every one and we actually look at it twice. So our advisors will go out and see the client, do the fact, find, discuss their needs, wants, priorities, et cetera, et cetera, as you would expect, and then they formulate what they want to put together as their recommendation and at that point we then check the case to make sure that we believe that their recommendation is in line with what it should be, which we believe is a really good layer of protection for these individuals, because it's being looked at before. In effect, they're given the advice, for, want of a better phrase. Not only that, but sometimes it also brings up things that you know it's a second pair of eyes on a case where, um, something may have been missed, and these things happen. We're human beings, aren't we? From time to time, things are missed, and a second pair of eyes would naturally mean that that, you know, is picked up.
Speaker 3:The advisors would then go ahead and make their recommendation. You know, nine, probably 9.9 times out of 10, the recommendation is acceptable to the, to the client. It then goes through um, the underwriting, and goes through application, et cetera, et cetera, and we check it again at offer stage, um. So as soon as the offers come out, before it finishes off at solicitor stage, we'll then have a look at it just to make sure that circumstances haven't changed again. These things can take the time, can't they? Um, and that we shouldn't have revisited anything in there now. I believe that's a really, really excellent level of um support, really for the customer, not only that, but definitely for the advisor as well. You don't want to be an advisor that's going wrong at any stage, and this kind of protects both parties from that. So I think it's necessary and you know, with the vulnerability as we talked about before, we absolutely need to be, you know, treating customers fairly and looking after them as much as we can.
Speaker 1:Actually it's really interesting to hear that.
Speaker 1:It sounds like you know that's a really robust sort of quality assurance process that you've got on. I can absolutely see the benefit of having two pairs of eyes on a case. I think that really hits home given the sort of nature of the customers we're dealing with in this market. Clearly it's probably slightly more straightforward for a business of the size of just mortgages, but you know what I should say is for many of AIRS members that are sort of one man businesses or smaller businesses, you know we can introduce them to compliance services providers who can offer that level of file checking and quality assurance monitoring as well. So it's certainly something I think firms should consider. So it's really interesting to hear your approach on that side and, nathan, I suppose from a family building society perspective, both in terms of what you see when dealing with advisors in this part of the market but also in terms of your own processes in supporting vulnerable customers. What's the approach you take? And maybe how has that changed in light of things such as consumer duty.
Speaker 2:So it's brilliant to hear the's that changed in light of things such as consumer duty. So it's brilliant to hear the the processes it's in place there and with the with the double eyes, check-in and going through that type of process, and we at the family are in a similar kind of process ourselves of ultimately, you are potentially dealing with vulnerable customers here and we're here to provide a solution and to provide them with something that is suitable for their needs, and we use an actual underwriter on every single case. So none of what we do is computer-based. A physical person is looking at that file, looking at the incomes, looking at the outgoings, assessing bank statements, assessing credit files individually on every single case. So on that side of things is, we're in a very similar process because ultimately, we need to make sure that it's the right outcome for them, not just for us, but also for them as a customer.
Speaker 2:And, as you mentioned, with consumer duty, there's a big focus on making sure that everything is right for the customer there as well. So we talk to our brokers as well. If we have any questions or queries. Some of the underwriters will pick up the phone to the broker and just say I just want to have a little bit of a chat with you or they'll just ask additional questions of. I just want to make sure this is what you've said. Can you just confirm a couple of bits and pieces in regards to that case so that we can just make an assessment on that scenario? And after that, once the underwriter is happy, they do an offer recommendation that then goes to a underwriting manager to approve as well. So, again, on our side, there are two eyes checking.
Speaker 2:So it's that type of process that we have in place and we have a very, very good website for the customers the customers if they've got any concerns later on down the line, they've got any issues? They can the line and they've got any issues, they can pick up the phone and actually talk to a human being. They're not stuck on hold. They're not asked to be put through um like a web bot that will ask the generic questions and say, oh, has this answered your question or not? You're actually speaking to a human being and they're obviously the brokers customers, but also our customers longer term as well. So we want to make sure that they are looked after every step of the way. So, um, we have a range of material available if they've got any concerns and again, we always recommend them speaking to an advisor as well as much as they possibly can. So yeah, we, we try to do as best as we possibly can for everybody involved I think that personalized approach in this market is absolutely critical, isn't it?
Speaker 1:And you'll both be aware that sort of last year, air launched our comprehensive conversations manifesto and that was all centered around the need to have really personalized conversations with people to understand their full needs and wants and circumstances. So it's great to hear that that's extending, you know, through the whole journey in terms of what mortgage lenders are doing as well, but but actually just just sort of built building on that, maybe in terms of the next question, because I think technology brings in lots of opportunity to sort of streamline processes and drive efficiency and and indeed improve customer experience as well. But I suppose, how, as an advice business, do you embrace technology but not lose that personal touch?
Speaker 3:Well, it's very interesting. You should ask that question. We've just introduced a new well, I say we have, we did it last year actually feels quite new, but it's been around for some time now. We've just introduced a new point of sale and CRM system into Just Mortgages, which I think caters for any kind of client. So it's definitely up to speed, as in the current marketplace it's not out of date.
Speaker 3:For those that are really tech savvy, we can get really technical if we want to. There's a client portal in there that we can get really technical if we want them. If we want to um, there's a client portal in there that we can invite customers to if they want to deal with us digitally and there are quite a few people that do um, but I. There's also the choice not to do that. So if we are in the older generation who is a bit frightened of technology and some are, although I do think that's a dying breed, but I think some are then we can still adopt the very much personal face-to-face everything's done by phone, call, paper and all that kind of thing if we want to.
Speaker 3:The system that we have is incredibly flexible and I think that is vital, particularly in later life lending, because you can't put everyone in the same box. You can't assume that everyone is really tech savvy and you also can't assume that everyone is not. So having a good system in place that allows the broker to adapt to the customer that they've got is vital, and we believe we have that. It's also got a great reminder system in there to keep you know your customers managed so that they don't fall off. You know the end of the spreadsheet as it used to be in the olden days and, yeah, we're really excited by what we have in place now because, like I said, we can tailor our approach to each individual customer that we've got.
Speaker 1:I mean actually that. I mean that sounds really exciting, I think. For me, you know, technology that really puts the power back in an advisor's hands is the key and it actually adds to the advice experience rather than sort of takes away from it. So it sounds like you've got to a really good place with that. And what about on your side, nathan? How are Family, building Society, embracing technology within your processes to either improve outcomes or streamline experiences?
Speaker 2:As Ashley mentioned there, you can't obviously look at everybody with the same eye, so we need to be able to make sure that technology is available for those that can use it, and also there are alternatives there for aren't necessarily as tech savvy.
Speaker 2:When it comes to the broker experience, we're currently investing in a new application system that's going to make things quicker, simpler and a bit easier.
Speaker 2:Now, that's going to be used to enhance what we do and not replace what we do, so the idea really for that is to make sure that the system gets the information in accurately and correctly and quickly, and we will then still do our manual underwriting process on top of that. It will then mean that the mortgage offers and any additional inquiries or anything that the underwriter may have will go directly into that, so it'll be quicker and simpler to respond to it, creating full audit trails for everybody as well, so that they've got that in the background. And also, we are also making changes to our customer-facing systems, making things easier for people to log into and access online as well, because, as you mentioned, not everybody wants that, but there are a lot more of the older generation that have been brought up with computers and things now and are um, I mean, my nan uses a smartphone, um, so she's, so she has access to that as well, um, so we need to make sure that we can cater for for everybody.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, we're making improvements all the time, um, and there's as innovations change, we'll try and move along with it as well I suppose that's a really good point, isn't it, nathan, that you know, when we think about where technology can make a difference, it's not necessarily just at that point of sale, it's through the whole sort of life cycle of the product, so how customers can continue to engage with the product, which is really important, obviously, if you're talking about a lifetime mortgage or a long-term mortgage for for older people.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that sounds, sounds some great stuff going on there and and I think you know, maybe building on that as well, one of the sort of themes that lots of members talk to us about is how they can acquire more customers more cost effectively. So maybe actually back over to you, but it might be something you want to talk about in relation to that sort of crm system you've embedded. But but, but how can you use technology and data to identify opportunities and engage with customers at a point of time which is most relevant to them about these solutions?
Speaker 3:yeah, and and again, you're right. I'm going to go back to the, the new system, that system that we've just brought in, I mean before. If you don't, there are a lot of decent CRM systems on the marketplace for sure, and I just think in this day and age, if you're a broker who doesn't have that, you're kind of stuck to your old paper files or you're stuck to an Excel spreadsheet which you've got to manually open and filter, et cetera, et cetera, and some people can slip through the net. With a decent CRM system now you should be able to filter through your client base, going back, however long it goes back, to identify those people who are coming to or not far off being a certain age where you can start to talk to them in a different way. You know when you're coming towards the end of your mortgage or your mortgage was paid off a while ago, you don't want to be marketed by your broker, for you know we'd look at your fixed rate in every two years or whatever it might be. You've got to be appropriate to their age range and a very decent CRM system now will be able to to pick out what that age range is so that you can decide what marketing you want to do for them.
Speaker 3:Um, and I think it's very vital that you keep that marketing up to date and relevant as well, not old-fashioned and even these days, you know, not not boring either, and we've got to be careful. The balance has to be right because of course we're in financial services. Our marketing's got to be compliant, it's got to be not misleading in any way, shape or form. But you can do that and keep it eye-catching and engaging and and relevant for the customer, and a decent, you know, piece of technology in the background will help you do that effectively, rather than being stuck with an excel spreadsheet which I think a lot of people possibly either still have or, you know, definitely did have.
Speaker 1:And Ashley, what about on the sort of other side in terms of sort of word of mouth and referrals? I mean your business, as I understand it, you know you operate sort of close relationships obviously with this sort of estate agency network. So any tips for our members out there in terms of how to drive more effective referrals and to make sure that you know the people sitting in front of customers day in, day out sort of recognize opportunities and know how and when to refer?
Speaker 3:I mean, that's the million dollar question. Isn't it A different view for how this should be done? I mean, from a referral point of view. Honestly, my opinion on this, having been in this industry for what 30 odd years now is you just have to ask for them, um, and I know that that's what everybody knows, that they should do. But I still think there is a large proportion of people out there that are frightened to say to a customer who they've done a particularly wonderful job for, do you know anyone? Can you put me in touch with anyone? I think they just walk away with the assumption that the client will do that and you shouldn't make assumptions about human beings at all, should you? Because we're all completely different and, honestly, it's no earth shattering news to me. But as far as I'm concerned, to get referrals, you just have to ask and be confident that you've done the right job, which invariably you will have done. And if you've done the right job and your customer's happy with you, they will fall over themselves to help you out. I'm pretty sure that's what would happen.
Speaker 3:And as far as marketing and everything else is concerned, again, I've got a basic view on it. Just do it, you know, again because of the later life environment, I think some people can be a little bit nervous about the marketing that they do and that is correct and that is relevant, and so shy away from it and getting you know, getting the word out there of what later life lending looks like these days. And you know there's been a great example from both us, and obviously from Nathan as well, about how many layers there are to keeping people safe with this kind of lending and I think we just need to tell people that that's how it's done and then that reduces the if there is any left but any nervousness about this kind of of lending. Really just spread the word about how cautious and how well we look after people. That's just my view.
Speaker 1:Just do it really oh, actually, you're spot on. I've just come off another podcast actually where we had a lender refer to advisors in the later life lending market as heroes and and I think not enough advisors see themselves as that. And again, if you know you're doing a great job and you know you're delivering great outcomes, then why wouldn't you want to celebrate that and why wouldn't you, you know, ask the question more actively around? You know, can I help any other members of your family or friends that you may have? You know, if you're confident about your service, you shouldn't be bashful, should you, about promoting it. So I think that's a great message for all of us. I think and, nathan, on your side, I mean you interact with advisors across the market in you know, many different sort of guises. So you know, what have you seen working really well in terms of firms attracting and retaining more customers?
Speaker 2:As Con actually alluded to there. It's asking the questions being, uh, and? And yourself is being confident in what you do? Um, now, the mortgage market itself is an ever-changing beast. Let's let's be honest. Um, it's constantly evolving, as we've talked about, and it's making sure that you've got good quality contacts that can help each other out and you're providing referral services, not just for yourself, but also to other elements of the business, and some of the the advisors and brokers that tend to utilize us the most have that type of support network in place for them as the advisor, as well as their customers. So they've got good quality conveyances, good, good quality accountants, good quality IFAs or tax advisors or wealth planners, because this type of lending will impact all those different types of the business. If you're dealing with the older generation, they need a solicitor that they know and can trust and will be happy to talk to them as well, so that comes in very, very handy.
Speaker 2:Accountants depending on what they might have buy-to-lets in the background they might have other assets and things like that making sure that that's being utilised correctly. The wealth advisors and IFAs as well, looking at long-term inheritance tax planning If they continue this debt, what will that do, moving on later in their life as well, is this the right thing for them to do? And then that provides additional support and confidence to the advisor, ensuring that they know they're doing the correct thing based on the advice they're getting from some of their referral partners. And it's having that support network in the background that can really really really help and kind of, as we've alluded to, not being scared to ask the question and sometimes it's just I, it's just that being comfortable to ask the question, um, and identifying additional leads. So, prime example, a first-time buyer or family member and looking at buying their first house and some of the money is coming as a gift from family.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, where's that gift come from? It might have come from a pension, it might have come from savings, it might have come from investments. Actually, is this, is there a for options that you can help them with? Well, and expanding your knowledge and say the most important thing I can always say is provide the support to yourself as well as your customers and the most kind of prevalent advisors with us. Do that because again, they can sit back and know they've done a very, very good job and they know that they've given the right outcome to their customer and then from us as well, from a lender's point of view, when that case comes in. Generally speaking, it is belt and braces, complete with even sometimes a reasoning and rationale as to what they're doing for that case as well, so that when the underwriter picks it up they can be comfortable and confident that actually yeah, you know what this is the right outcome for that customer. They've obviously had a good quality conversation.
Speaker 1:This seems like the right option for them as well, so they can underwrite it with confidence as well as well, and Nathan, without wanting to be too provocative, but what does best practice for lenders look like in this space in terms of sort of signposting customers back to advice? I hear a lot from mainly mainstream mortgage brokers around concerns when lenders sort of look to engage early with customers around product transfer opportunities or customers coming off sort of product deals and being left sitting on SVRs when maybe there's better options available. What, what should lenders do to signal customers back to advice, and what and what do family building society do in that space?
Speaker 2:so. So in that space or when clients are coming up to because there's there's two elements to remember is, ultimately, when that case is completed, they are our customer as well and we are needing to make sure that they are being given the best possible outcomes as well. So that's one thing to make sure that ultimately there is an advisor in place but also they are our customer and we need to make sure that they are being looked after. So when it comes to close to the end of their product, we will write to them just to let them know their product has come for renewal and we direct them back to the advisor and say we would highly recommend you get the full advice in regards to your circumstances. Obviously, if they want to speak to us, they can, but we can on a product transfer, if it's a straightforward product transfer, we generally wouldn't be offering them any advice. We'll give them the products. We'll say these are the options that are available to you, but we would highly recommend that you speak to an advisor, not just for changing with us, but there might be other options out there for them. Their circumstances might have changed and is this the right thing for them to do? So we signpost on every single letter that we send to them. Get the advice.
Speaker 2:If you've had an advisor before, the only time we tend to really kind of get onto it ourselves a bit more is if we can see they are going onto an SVR.
Speaker 2:That client potentially will have a significantly higher increase in their payment and if nothing is being done we need to make sure they're looked after.
Speaker 2:So we will look to do a product transfer at that point or help them out as much as we possibly can, because ultimately that might be the wrong outcome for them to sit on an SVR. That's significantly higher, putting them under financial distress. So something will need to be done and we do need to look after them in that way, in that way. So from our perspective we do always like to point them back to the advisor and also to really show that we believe in that. We are one of the few lenders that will pay a full proc fee on a PT because we believe that the advice is key and important for that customer and from the advisor's perspective, there's just as much work involved in a PT as there will be for a remortgage because again, you are needing to make sure that it is the right outcome for the customer nathan, that's good to hear and I'm sure ashley's sort of pleased to hear that as well.
Speaker 1:But but I I always say actually to advisors though I think if, if you know, if you're complaining about how advisors are engaging with your customers, you're probably not on the front foot yourself enough with those customers. Would you agree with that and sort of, yeah, how do you sort of um sort of support your advisors in terms of making sure they're having that regular engagement?
Speaker 3:I think I go back to what we said before. I you know, if you, if you, if you're self-employed, or even if you're employed really and you're and you're in the market of looking after customers, you need to make sure think that that thought process is the first thought process that you've got every day how am I looking after my customers? Here it's not about churning out the business here, there and everywhere. We're big believers in taking time for reflection because when you've got a clear mind, obviously things come to you quite quickly and and easily, a lot more easily than when you're really really busy and and in this kind of marketplace where there is a lot of activity, sometimes it's really worth just taking 10 minutes out and reflecting and thinking about hang on, why am I here?
Speaker 3:You know we've we've got to make sure that our customers are looked after and that the right thing is being done as often as possible. Technology comes back to that, as we talked about before, but similarly, you've got to have the right mindset around it at the same time. So again, if you've got the right mindset and you're looking after your customers and one of your priorities is to grow your business, your business will organically grow because you're looking after your customers. So to me it makes perfect sense in exactly the same way that Nathan described you have to put that person first, because they're the people that will end up growing your business for you.
Speaker 1:What a great message that is, ash. I think we could all take that advice, take that time for reflection I think we'd all benefit from that and put the customer first. I mean, it sounds simple, doesn't it? But you know two really good tips there, I think, in terms of making sure that we're serving customers and also growing our business in the way that we all want. I've got one sort of final question before we sort of end the podcast, but I suppose sort of looking forward in terms of sort of what we would like to see in terms of the market development. If you could have sort of one wish with, whether it be a lender or the regulator or the government or a technology provider, what's the one thing that you would like to see to really have a positive impact on the later life lending market?
Speaker 2:and I'll come to you first, nathan, on that from our side of things, um, we are true believers in kind of destigmatizing the later life lending market. It does sometimes feel that that is the case. Um, there's a lot of quite so focus on first-time buyer markets and things like that making sure that people can get onto the property ladder from the beginning, but it also needs to make sure that we're not discouraging looking at good quality advice for those customers later in life, and it's brilliant to see that actually there is a bit more of a focus on that life and it's, uh, it's brilliant to see that actually, um, there is a bit more of a focus on that. That we are seeing now towards the government, where they are looking at all the different options in the regulations, regulatory space of what can be done to make things easier. Obviously, there's a big drive in regards to mortgage affordability, um, of making that a little bit more flexible, but they are looking at later life space for that as well. Now, the affordability will help in the later life space because obviously, if the affordability becomes better for for everybody, then the lending becomes that little bit easier.
Speaker 2:Uh, that you're on in life as well. Um, and I think that's probably the main thing of just making this more than norm. Um, the more this kind of becomes the normal market, the more people look into it, the more people educate themselves on it, the more this becomes just what happens, and then lenders and providers alike will start kind of focusing on that market as well. And it's amazing things can happen when things become the norm. It's amazing things can happen when things become the norm. Products will change, innovation will take place and good customer outcomes will come off of the back of that, by just people being comfortable to be able to provide that advice without the stigma of oh well, hang on, this is an older borrower, a later life mortgage. What's going to happen? Rather than being, as we mentioned earlier, confident and cut job. I know this is the best outcome. Cut job, I know this is the best outcome for the client. This is the best possible scenario. I'm happy, and then the customer's happy as well I.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more. I think that that that piece around de-stigmatization is really important. I think we're still dealing with some of the legacy, aren't we from mmr, which set a clear expectation that it should be the goal of customers to sort of pay off their mortgage by their you know early to mid 50s before they retire? We know that that's just not the reality, for for most people now I think I saw a stat saying that last year there's about 40 percent of mortgages were due to extend beyond retirement. So, you know, people need pragmatic solutions that are going to help them manage that debt for longer. And that's the reality. And, as you say, the more that we make later life lending the norm, I think more will get people engaged in the market and we'll get to better outcomes. So, no, completely agree with that. And what about you, ashley? What's your wish for the fairy? Godmother, if you could wave your magic wand, what's the one thing that you would like? Your wish for the fairy?
Speaker 3:godmother, if you could wave your magic wand, what's the one thing that you would like?
Speaker 3:Well, I think I totally and utterly agree with the stigma thing and I think my kind of requirement here or wish, if you want to call it that, is still along the stigma lines, and I would like to see a lot more flexibility on the property, because it's beyond me that we can have maybe the same property put in front of a lender that's going to lend on it from a residential point of view and a lender that's going to lend on it from a later life point of view, and it's a lot more strict on the later life.
Speaker 3:And there are properties that are accepted by residential lending all day, every day, for what could be up to what 40 in some cases, maybe even 45 years on a term of mortgage. But from a later life point of view it's not acceptable and I think if we could, like you said before, make it a bit more normal, the property is the same regardless of what kind of lending is on it. I would love to see some more flexibility on that. I think it would widen the marketplace quite a bit as well.
Speaker 1:Actually I think that will resonate with a lot of our members. We hear a lot of complaints from members that they can't find a home for a lot of the properties that they see come across their desk from a later life lending perspective. And it does always seem crazy to me, as you say, that you can see, you know really prime property in some central London locations that are turned down by lifetime mortgage lenders because they happen to be next to a commercial premises. It just doesn't really sound right from a risk assessment perspective. But, nathan, maybe a final word from you on that. I mean, how does a family sort of look at property criteria in this space? Do you look at it differently than you would from the mainstream market?
Speaker 2:No. So whether a client's buying a property at 18, 19 to 89 application, we would look at it in the same way, because we are more akin to a residential lender rather than maybe like an equity release style lender on that side of things. So, um, so obviously we offer rio products that have no, no end date and things like that. So the main thing being is if generally for us, if it's suitable for us on a normal residential basis, just because it's an older borrower, um shouldn't impact us and our security in any way.
Speaker 1:That's good to hear and a challenge that you and I can take to maybe equity release lenders Ashley to see if we can get some movement on that, but no good point.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you very much for your time today. I think it's been another sort of comprehensive conversation and I look forward to seeing how the market develops in 2025. And I'm sure that Family Building Society and Just Mortgages will be at the forefront of that. So thank you for your time today and, yeah, have a good remainder of the year, thank you, you too, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Master Later Life Lending Podcast. If you've enjoyed our comprehensive conversations, then please take a moment to leave a review on the app or your favorite podcast platform. Make sure to subscribe, too, so you never miss an episode, and follow us on social media for exclusive content.