Master Later Life Lending - By Air
The "Master Later Life Lending" podcast is designed specifically for equity release specialists and mainstream mortgage advisors who serve clients over the age of 50. Hosted by industry veteran Paul Glynn, our mission is to equip you with the knowledge and tools needed to excel in the dynamic world of later life lending.
Each episode features in-depth discussions with leading experts, focusing on the unique financial needs of older borrowers. We tackle key issues such as dispelling myths around equity release, exploring the latest product innovations, and understanding the regulatory changes that impact your practice.
Our goal is to empower you to provide the best advice and solutions to your clients, whether they are traditional equity release customers or emerging younger later life borrowers. By staying ahead of market trends and enhancing your expertise, you can build trust with your clients and grow your advisory practice.
Join us on this journey to mastering later life lending, and ensure you’re equipped to meet the evolving needs of your clients. Subscribe now to stay informed, inspired, and ahead in this crucial segment of financial services.
Master Later Life Lending - By Air
Shaping the Future: How Lenders Are Empowering Advisers
In this episode of Master Later Life Lending, host Will Hale is joined by Nick Birdseye (L&G), Dave Harris (more2life), and Lyndsey Charnock (Canada Life) to explore how lenders are supporting advisers with innovative products, better tools, and customer-focused strategies.
From the impact of Consumer Duty and evolving client needs to standout product innovations and tech-driven collaboration, this conversation offers expert insights into how lenders and advisers can work together to shape the future of later life lending.
Welcome to Master Later Life Lending, the podcast where we explore the latest trends, challenges and opportunities in the later life lending market. I'm your host, will, and whether you're an equity release specialist or a mainstream mortgage advisor, this show is designed to help you stay ahead of the curve as you navigate the unique needs of older clients. In this episode, we're asking the question how are lenders supporting advisors to shape the future of later life lending? As the market continues to evolve, advisors need the right tools, products and support to provide the best possible outcomes for their clients. That's where lenders play a crucial role. In this episode, we explore how leading lenders are empowering advisors with innovative products, solutions and strategies to navigate a rapidly changing market.
Speaker 1:To discuss, we're joined by experts Nick Birdseye from LNG, dave Harris from MortarLife and Lindsay Charnock from Canada Life. We'll dive into the shift from a product-centric approach to a more life-centric approach focusing on the customer experience and the future of financial planning. Join us for expert insights on the latest trends in lifetime mortgages, product innovations and how advisors and lenders are working together to shape the future of later life lending. Let's get started Right, guys. So I suggest we jump right into it. So first question I'm going to direct to you, lindsay, if that's okay. So what do you see as the biggest challenges and opportunities ahead for the later life lending market and how do you think that lenders and advisors can work together to shape the future?
Speaker 2:Thanks Will. I think probably one of the biggest impacts at the moment on retirement is the increase of longevity. You know, we all know that people are living longer, but I think the importance of people understanding what that actually means and we kind of have different sectors, don't we? We have different factors of how longevity does impact different people. So I think the first one is probably thinking around those type of clients who are underestimating life expectancy as to how long they are going to live in retirement and looking at, you know, as they go through that retirement journey, the different how the different needs and wants change over time when we also think about longevity. It's the other kind of set of clients who are thinking more in terms of intergenerational planning and gifting, and you know how they work with the families and have those different type of conversations as well. And then we have more of them, aspirational clients who just want to make the most of the retirement. You know they'll have different stages again throughout that retirement journey, but just looking at retirement from a different angle and want, you know, to explore and do as many different things and opportunities as they can while they still fit and able. So I think that different ageing cycle and the different impact of kind of longevity over so many more years.
Speaker 2:Now, you know, when we're thinking back, probably 40-50 years ago, people were sitting retirement at 60- 65 and probably spending the next 10, maybe 15 years in retirement, whereas people retiring today could be living the next 20, 25, maybe even 30 years. So it's looking at those different angles and when we're speaking and educating people more on longevity, I think people are understanding more now in terms of how important it is to get advice. You know how much more advice is needed, and not just for them, but for the families as well. When we're talking about that intergenerational piece, you know if you are going to be gifting to your kids, grandkids, whoever it may be, um, rather than leaving inheritance in the future and what that looks like, and just opening up that conversation a lot more, because we are going to get that more and more.
Speaker 2:We've been doing some research. You probably would have seen um on Canada Life website on some reports that we're doing on Life 100 and it's all about people living longer and what their thoughts and feelings are around that. You know a lot of people think about living longer and think, oh, wow, I've got an extra, you know, 10-15 years, but then actually the realization of it kicks in in terms as to you know what's that extra time going to look like, what's my quality of life going to be like, you know what's my financial situation going to be like, and that's impacting us more and more now. The actual figures on that report, um on the live 100 report, was there'll be 459 million people aged 18 and above by 2050, so that's almost triple what we had in 2021. So, yeah, huge impact, though obviously lots of conversations to be had and lots of advice needed, I think.
Speaker 1:Thanks, lindsay, and that Life 100 report. I would certainly encourage people to go and seek that out. I spoke to Rebecca Gladstone from your sort of policy team back in January and again, sort of advisors should maybe sort of seek out that comprehensive conversation that I recorded with Rebecca to explore some of those themes. And it's pretty stark, isn't it sort of thinking about how older age has changed for many, many people and the realities of that.
Speaker 2:So I was just going to say, and I think a really important one for people to, you know, understand more is that power of conversation. Out of that report and out of the people that we spoke to, you know, there was only half of people that had spoken to the families regarding the plans for retirement, regarding inheritance, you know, regarding that intergenerational conversation. So it's to try and educate more on how powerful that conversation is and how much impact it can have, not just on you but obviously on future generations as well, but also on your life satisfaction throughout retirement as well, to make sure that everything's in place.
Speaker 1:Thanks Lindsay and Nick. Sort of building on that in a little bit more detail, lindsay's sort of set the scene in terms of sort of how the demographics are changing. How are lenders in the later life market sort of reacting to those evolving sort of customer needs and wants?
Speaker 3:I think we see lenders bringing to market a good deal of innovation in terms of product development. We've seen the advent of payment term lifetime mortgages from ourselves and other lenders in the marketplace, term lifetime mortgages from ourselves and other lenders in the marketplace. We've also seen the development of more interest-served solutions, and all of this is focused on managing debt roll-up through longer retirement. So if we've got customers who are living longer, then the risk of their estates being eroded by traditional roll-up lifetime mortgages is heightened. So giving customers the options to make interest to serve interest payments and reduce debt through their retirement is really, really important.
Speaker 1:And giving advisors a broader waterfront of products to advise on and add that customer value in into their customers is really, really important and and Dave, I know this is a subject you're passionate about, but but just expand a little bit more on what Nick was saying around how products are changing and to meet those sort of evolving customer needs. We're seeing a lot of customers now who have little or no chance of paying off mortgages by the time they retire. So how's the later life lending market stepping up to meet that particular need?
Speaker 4:I'm interested to see that you phrased your first question to Lindsay around challenges that the industry is facing.
Speaker 4:I think we're entering a phenomenal phase of opportunity Opportunity for advisors to embrace the needs that do now exist that Lindsay and Nick have just described, against a backdrop of there now being a huge amount of innovation that has taken place over the last few years across all providers in this space. So for me, brokers really do have a great opportunity. Advisors do have a great opportunity to engage with this part of the market, to look to organizations like AIR and all the great tools that AIR have made available, and then they will be in a good place to serve all of those sections that Lindsay described that exist in terms of customer need. There are those that absolutely just need income in retirement, there are those that need to carry a mortgage into retirement that perhaps they didn't expect, and then there are all of those intergenerational needs, iht planning, et cetera. All of those things exist out there as customers needing support. So there's a huge opportunity that lies ahead for all of us in this space, I feel.
Speaker 1:No, I absolutely agree, and I think you're certainly right to sort of frame that question around opportunity as much as challenge, because I think we all sort of tune into that. There's a huge opportunity for the sector to step up and serve those customers better. So so I suppose, sort of taking that theme on sort of what do we need advisors to do and what are lenders and others in the market doing to support advisors, and by advisors I suppose I'm talking a broad church here. So we have specialist equity release advisors who still have their role to play. We have mainstream mortgage advisors who are increasingly engaging in this market and then we have managers in the sort of wealth and investment space who are slowly starting to realize that property wealth needs to be incorporated within broader retirement planning. So again, perhaps starting with Nick, how would you like to see the advice landscape change and what are you doing as a lender to support advisors adapt to the needs of changing customers?
Speaker 3:Thanks, willie. I think for me the biggest opportunity and the biggest wish on our list would be for more advisors to open their eyes to the possibility of lifetime mortgage lending options in retirement and also the family planning options that those products present to wealth advisors as well. If you're a borrower and you're hitting 55, then the waterfront of your borrowing options increases massively. So you move out of just the traditional residential mortgage space, you move into the space of term interest-only mortgages, retirement interest-only mortgages, payment term lifetime mortgages, traditional lifetime mortgages, interest-served lifetime mortgages. You've got a really, really broad waterfront and what I don't think we see is enough advisors engaging with that breadth of products and offering those customers that broader range of solutions in the mortgage broking space. So I think we'd like to see DA firms and networks embrace that cohort of products more broadly and demonstrate that they're offering those product solutions to their customers. And I think in the wealth space we'll understand it.
Speaker 3:And this takes us back to the opportunity bit that actually, as we move forward, the number of borrowers who are taking much more property wealth into retirement than they are pension wealth, that property is going to become their most important asset in their retirement and that might be a macro sort of solution or a macro sort of opportunity, and it may be sometime in the future, but it's definitely coming, and unless we're ready to engage with it now, we won't, you know, unless we get ready now, we won't be ready to engage with it now. We won't. We, you know, unless we get ready now, we won't be ready to engage with it when that, that reality comes. Um, so it's um, full financial planning, property as one of the basket of a customer's assets, and and wealth managers taking that asset into account when they're delivering the best consumer outcome they can.
Speaker 1:And Dave, I know you've got some sort of strong views on this subject, but I suppose in the context of the FCA's review of advice in the later life lending market and sort of more, latterly the dear CEO letter sent to all mortgage intermediaries, sort of encouraging consideration of all options. How do you think advisors, I suppose, are adapting and what more do they need to do to make sure we get to the right outcomes for more customers in this space?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I don't want to come across as too provocative, but from my perspective, you know and I think this is a perspective that is shared when I talk to other CEOs of the lenders my engagement with the FCA, with the DSCO letters, the reality is that, as Nick has just said, there is a huge plethora of choice that now is available to the older borrower. There's been phenomenal innovation undertaken by many, many lenders not just in the lifetime mortgage space, but RIOs, tos, etc.
Speaker 4:Etc. There's also been huge steps forward with organizations such as your Own Will, where tools are being made available to advisors that help them properly consider what is the right pathway for an older borrower to go down. You know assessing affordability, correctly gathering health data. You know considering what the needs are, not just of mum and dad or gran or grandfather, but the wider family in the longer term around things like inheritance tax. And for me, you mentioned those advisors. You know specialists, lifetime mortgage advisors, mainstream mortgage advisors, wealth managers. The reality is I wouldn't give any one of those populations an A star. At the moment Not one. There is room for improvement. One.
Speaker 1:There is room for improvement.
Speaker 4:You know, we as lenders, now have, under consumer duty, the responsibility to do proper oversight on the distribution partners that we have. And the scorecard is not good. Right, when I talked to the CEOs of some of the networks, some of the specialists, you know, the data is saying that we all need to dig in and do more. Right, the comprehensive conversations campaign that AIR has pioneered? Right, there's not enough comprehensive conversations taking place. There's not enough use of the tools that are available at AIR habitually taking place. I think I saw only one in five sourcing sessions actually take account of affordability. Well, against the product backdrop that Nick described, that's not good enough. So I do think there's room for improvement. Nobody gets A-star right. I've never been given an A-star in my life, either academically or for anything I've done professionally. Right. But I think we do need to move on from the C that I see at the moment.
Speaker 1:But everybody so yeah, well, that's quite a challenge, dave. And look, I think from an air perspective, we are seeing advisors sort of change their behavior.
Speaker 1:I think, we are seeing greater engagement with the tools that we offer, whether that be the navigator tool that ensures that advisors are showing customers all the options available, whether it's engaging with the affordability tools on the sourcing platform or whether indeed it's adding sort of health and lifestyle information in terms of the engagement. But I do take your provocation that everyone needs to do more. And on that theme, Lindsay, sort of turning to you, I know Canada Life offer a lot of sort of support for advisors in terms of training and tools. Do you want to give a little bit of an overview of what's available for advisors to help them sort of on the journey, sort of that Dave's indicated and maybe what more is coming from yourselves or others in this space?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree. There's just so many different options available now and it's just to try and make it as simple and easy to navigate as possible, I think, for both advisors and for clients as well, with the different options out there. Yeah, I mean, from an education point of view, we have lots of different um. You know, oversights on on the system for us to look at, was also looking at um, having further conversations within the industry about scenario planning. You know, as I was talking about before, with the increase of longevities, it's not just about giving the right advice for the client today, but it's what that's going to look like in the future as well. So making sure that the products and the tools are flexible enough to change with that client's ageing cycle throughout that retirement journey. And was also thinking about conversations in terms as to ongoing advice.
Speaker 2:I know, obviously Equator Release in the past has always been very much transactional, but you know how does that look like. What does that look like for the future? Will there be more ongoing advice available? And I think there needs to be. But it's just making sure that you know we're planning it right for the advisors, for the clients and obviously to make it as cost effective as possible as well, and so I think there's lots of things to come.
Speaker 2:I think, in terms of helping advisors plan, it'd be really good to see some kind of scenario planning tool, so bringing everything together, so a bit like cashflow modeling, really, that wealth managers tend to use for investments and pensions, bringing that more into the later life space. In terms of this is a client situation now, whether it's an interest of product or whatever it may be, and different scenarios happening throughout that retirement journey. How can we adapt and change to suit the client's needs and wants at that time? So, yeah, lots in the pipeline, but I think, yeah, we all need to kind of work together to make sure we're advising clients and advisors as much as possible on that change in development and situations as well.
Speaker 1:Thanks, lindsay, that's interesting. Touched there on that need for maybe more sort of customer focused, life centric sort of thought processes, both from an advisor and a lender perspective. Do you want to sort of give a little bit of a flavor for what, for what LNG are doing in that space, again thinking about how customers are engaging with the products and features sort of over the full life cycle, particularly around potentially sort of using either scheduled repayments or ad hoc repayments to manage their borrowing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I mean we do a lot that is consumer-facing. We're not necessarily a D2C firm, so we do that via the provision that we make for brokers. So we bought our Rio product to market first lifetime mortgage lender. We do that via the provision that we make for brokers and so we bought our Rio product to market first lifetime mortgage lender to do that, we bought our payment term lifetime mortgage to market and what we've needed to do with with that bringing the product to market is one thing. Building the advisor engagement is a is a separate matter. So actually what we found was actually there's quite a big capability gap between the advisors who are in our space and active in our space and their confidence and capability to do affordability assessments that enabled them to put those products across to customers, to qualified customers for the products, and then be able to articulate those products. So we've done a lot of work on outreach work to support advisors getting better at understanding affordability, sources of income, placing customers on credit risk products. So from a technical perspective, we've done a lot of work on that and then from a, I suppose from a market development perspective, we we'd like to think that at lng, we do a, we do a, you know, full spectrum. So we've just agreed a business case with a firm to support them, um, getting 10 of their advisors qualified. So that that'd be really exciting and it's great to see, you know, people wanting to engage with the market and new blood coming into the market. The next stage in our development would be what we call our setting of foundations, workshops, and that's to. You know, how do you translate that technical qualification into customer outcomes? Those courses are really popular. And then we get into the how do we support brokers actually developing their businesses. So we, you know, we do our Bank of Family stuff, our annual report on Bank of Family. We've done a consumer-facing guide to gifting brochure and that's been downloaded now nearly 50,000 times since it's been published. But also that's accessible for brokers so they can actually use that as a point know, a point of sale material with their customers. They can help their customers understand the impacts of gifting out of their estate and the benefits of that as well.
Speaker 3:We've done our divorce campaign. So we've highlighted the issue around the issues of advice in divorce. Around the issues of advice in divorce. We know only around about five or six percent of customers take financial advice. When they're going through a divorce, they'll obviously see a solicitor, by which time a lot of the decisions have been made around the finances and it's too late to unwind. Some of the agreements have been made. It's really, really important to get a financial advice as early as possible.
Speaker 3:Um. So I think that the, the, the answer is um, is around lenders providing support that helps advisors, because the advisor is the key person in in this whole situation. You know, our products can't get to consumers without an advisor getting in the way of them. Um, so the, the the challenge is to help that interaction be as, absolutely as positive as possible, and and the advisor is the professional in the room.
Speaker 3:Um, if we go back to the challenges and opportunities, you know we we seem to be running across since the halcyon days of 2022 or 3. We seem to be running across short-term speed bumps that are really hampering our market. So we had COVID, we had the financial turmoil that happened in 2022. We've had the Ukraine. We've now, as we speak, we're at the start of the sort of tariff experience, and all of these road bumps erode consumer confidence and that hampers our market. The most important person in that immediate space is the advisor to hold the customer's hand, to be the professional in the room and give the customer the confidence that they're making the right decisions and that they're being provided with the right outcomes.
Speaker 1:Dave, I'm going to give you the sort of final word on this particular subject, but I think from Lindsay and Nick's comments, what I've taken away from that is it's a pretty complex environment out there for advisors. There's so many different product options. We're talking about a set of customers who've got a very diverse set of needs, wants and circumstances, but there does appear to be lots of help out there for advisors in terms of tools and training and resources. So how do we join the dots? How do we make a difference? How do we take the market forward and make sure that we are stepping up to really serve customers in this space?
Speaker 4:Well, I've said earlier, I think this is one of the most exciting periods for us all, whether you're a lender or an advisor. I concur with Nick that we I like his analogy there have been speed bumps since 2022, right when the lifetime mortgage market was over 6 billion, and those speed bumps have, you know, been shockwaves for us all. But I think we are now in a position where the rallying call is customers need us. Is customers need us right Customers need advisors to do their jobs and that, therefore, is an opportunity for advisors and the firms that they sit within. So it's time to be heroes. For me, right Advisors can be real heroes here. It does mean that they need to change the way in which they go about providing advice. As I said earlier, I think there's room for improvement there, but the tools are available right?
Speaker 4:I've heard, you know, the Canada Life say all the great material that they have legal in general, the great material that they have. But we need to bring that together as. But we need to bring that together as a choir that is singing the same song rather than being disparate from one another, and for me, that's where organizations such as yours Will are important. You are a huge shop window supermarket that we can all congregate in we can display our now much more innovative products that we and Legal General and Canada Life and others have launched. They can be displayed the interest-served variants, the payment term variants, etc. And the tools do exist in here to properly assess affordability.
Speaker 4:So I think a specialist lifetime mortgage advisor it's not rocket science to do affordability, particularly with the tools that are available. So those advisors can do a better job. That's the rallying call I would say to them, and likewise the mainstream mortgage advisors well, they've been assessing affordability for donkey's years, right, they just need to take proper account now of the new products that are available in the lifetime mortgage market. And then, wealth managers yeah, you do do a great job with all your cash flow modeling tools, but you're ignoring the biggest asset that exists the house. So you know, for me it's a very, very big period of opportunity now, but we do all need to ensure that we congregate around good places where good tools are available.
Speaker 4:I think AIR does that. I think we need to back each other up with crafting a common language we should all be chanting, for advisors need to conduct comprehensive conversations with their customers and we need to hold up a mirror and decide whether we are truly in, you know, doing our jobs properly. I'll take that challenge on. I need to keep innovating and bringing new products to market. I'll do my best to do that, and hopefully the owners of advisor firms, whether they're DAs, networks. You know there's room for us all to improve, but if we do, it's a huge opportunity for us all, because customers need us, they need us.
Speaker 1:And I think that's the bit I'll latch onto from your comment that advisors as heroes is what I heard, and I think if we can position our advisors in that way, we can step up and make a real difference. And you know, as you say, nick, you know customers can't access these products currently without advice and therefore advisors are at the core of making sure we step up as an industry to deliver to what customers need. So you touched on that, dave, as well the role of air and firms such as ourselves in terms of making the environment easier and that, and perhaps that's a sort of neat step into the role of technology going forward, both in terms of maybe simplifying the advice process but also streamlining the process and taking out some of the cost and inefficiency. So again, lindsay, I'm going to come to you first on this. So what role do you think technology can play in the modern later life lending world and where do firms such as Air need to sort of step up in order to sort of make things easier for advisors in the technology space?
Speaker 2:I think, as you've just been saying previously, you know there is lots of opportunity out there. Been saying previously you know there is lots of opportunity out there and there's lots more opportunities to come, and you know lots of different products in different avenues available. And I think it's just to try and make it as simple as possible for advisors and for clients as well to understand those different routes and different journeys along the way. So I think, in terms of actual tool, I think it'd be kind of that scenario tool, you know, where you're putting in details from a client's fact finding. It kind of pulls out different scenarios as to you know then, different clients needs and wants throughout that retirement journey. How's that going to look like?
Speaker 2:I know it's never going to be set in stone, there's always going to be twists and turns along the way. But just to try and have more of an understanding you know whether that's an interest of product to start off with or whether they've got a drawdown proposition and they need, you know, drawdown amounts at certain points in retirement just kind of a scenario overview as to how that might look over a period of time, just to try and paint that picture a little bit more. You know, as we said earlier on, it's not just a one-off transaction anymore. It's about advising throughout the whole of that journey. So just to try and help advisors and clients understand a little bit more as to how those product features fit over that time period of the life of the clients as well.
Speaker 1:Well, lindsay, we'll take that challenge on as air. So I hear you loud and clear a scenario planning tool is a gap in the market at the moment. So let me sort of take away and reflect on that. But I think there are a couple of tools that we've sort of alluded to sort of previously which are helpful to advisors. So we have within air our navigator tool that helps advisors compare different product types and and I'd call out as well, live more, live more, have their mortgage matcher tool, which does a similar thing as well. So I do think there are tools out there for advisors. But but, nick, one of the sort of much talked about sort of challenges at the moment is from a sourcing perspective. There isn't a sort of sourcing tool out there that properly compares all the different product options available. So how do you feel about it? Is it realistic that sourcing tools can step up? I mean, within the LNG house you've got the Ignite tool. How can the industry sort of step up in that area, do you think?
Speaker 3:tool.
Speaker 3:How can the industry sort of step up in that area? Do you think? I think our industry is supported really effective by strong partnerships, you know and where. So, for instance, you know, on the advisor front, if you, if you can't advise on our products, have a really strong partnership with somebody that can and I think the technology solution will be, um, I think we'll probably end up going down the same. You know a similar route with that, I think it will be.
Speaker 3:What we need is a full spectrum sourcing solution so an advisor can sit with a customer, put the customer details in. You know you might have two systems that talk to each other, but with one input, and for advisors it's all about operational efficiency. You know an advisor does not want to enter one system. Think about it, say, okay, now I need to go and have a look at another system. Do another sourcing all about operational efficiency. You know an advisor does not want to enter one system. Think about it, say, okay, now I need to go and have a look at another system, do another sourcing.
Speaker 3:Um, you know, complete rekey, um, complete sort of resourcing exercise to find out, okay, what they intuitively might have already thought you know was the right answer anyway. So, actually, if we can, um, if we can provide that full spectrum sourcing solution, that's the answer. How we get to the answer is going to be down to, you know, tech companies either wanting to build or partner, and I think you know that, with the advent of brighter guys than me and tech solutions that I don't really understand, it doesn't appear to be beyond the wit of man to be able to knit two tech solutions together to provide a front end that looks like a complete solution to an advisor and a consumer.
Speaker 1:I mean, my personal view is, nick, I think you're along the right lines there. I think integrations, rather than complete rebuilds, are probably what we need to look at and enhance the partnerships that are already in place across the market. And you touched on referrals there, I think an industrialized, automated way of referring customers from sort of one specialist advisor into another to make sure that customers sort of full range of needs are served. I think that's certainly an area of opportunity. But, dave, turning to you, I mean we've concentrated in this discussion from a technology perspective on sort of front end sort of sourcing and research tools. But technology's got a big role to play in other parts of the process as well. So maybe from an underwriting perspective or when it comes to the conveyancing process, where do you see the opportunity for technology to sort of improve outcomes but also maybe sort of reduce costs and drive efficiency for all of us in this sector?
Speaker 4:Yeah, before I talk about valuations, underwriting, conveyancing, just to underline some of the points made by Nick. I really do see this as a go back and talk about sourcing Old-fashioned phrase showing my age but splicing together two types of sourcing that is available at the minute.
Speaker 4:You know, ayer are very good, others like AIR are very good at navigating to and through lifetime mortgages. We need to make sure there is a good weld point now with mainstream sourcing technology. So I urge you to push forward with partnerships. I urge advisors out there, ceos of firms, da firms, network firms it's not beyond the wit of man to find a way of splicing these things together and I'd like to think, as we move through 2025, that you and others will identify a way of doing that. So that's my rallying call there.
Speaker 4:But to answer your question around technology elsewhere in the process, one of the things that I'm trying to ensure More to Life really focuses on. We do need to keep pushing the innovation boundary on product, but what else can we do? When you look at the end-to-end process that we all endure because I think there are aspects of it that we do endure one of the things at the front of the process for me is the huge wastage and busy full activity that goes into spending time as an advisor with a customer writing an application, sending it to the lender and only for a physical valuation to then go out and the answer comes back that the property is not suitable. That is wasting hundreds of thousands of hours every year, millions of pounds, and it's ending up with disappointed customers and brokers. So I think that is an area that I would encourage us all to look at.
Speaker 4:We're certainly looking at that in more to life. You know there is technology that should be able to rule a case in, and if it's ruled in, it should be able to move super fast to offer and completion. But if the case needs to be ruled out, let's rule it out faster and let customers and brokers down faster. I'd love to think we can get to a point where every property can be supported, but unfortunately the investment mandates of all of us as lenders is not there yet. Hopefully in time it can be, but right now, you know, just finding a way of ensuring that we can get to a no or a yes quicker in that valuation process is something that we can do something about. And I think at the other end of the spectrum, the you know the conveyancing side of things. I think it's good that this lifetime mortgage market has a conveyancer that represents both the lender and the customer.
Speaker 4:I think that's a very good feature of standards in this industry. But again, I just see it as in my head. It's kind of like one of those cartoons where the Keystone cops are going round and round and round about and nobody's really going anywhere. I sometimes see the conveyancing process as bogging down in that kind of interchange. So again, what? Rallying call? I haven't really got a solution here, but rallying call, I think, is what can all parties do to improve that? And I think that would help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting and, lindsay, I'll come to you because I think we hear a lot from members their frustrations at the post-application part of the process. You know too many properties, as Dave says, being turned down and being turned down slowly. Canada Life, I think, is a very good reputation for actually flexible underwriting and being able to offer bespoke terms. But are there things that you're looking at in the post-application process to try and make that journey smoother for customers and advisors?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, in Canada Life, you know, we tend to be as flexible as we can be with that underwriting criterion, just to try and for the advisor really to help us as much as possible to understand as much as we can regarding that property.
Speaker 2:Especially they've been out to see the client face to face in the home just to understand it a little bit more.
Speaker 2:We also have the postcode checker on the website so advisors can go on, put the property postcode in there and it'll basically give a yes or no as to whether we're lending in that area, especially for ex-local authority housing as well. Um, but yeah, we're trying to get as much information as we can before that process, at application stage, because there's nothing, as you say, more frustrating than you know the app going through, the surveyor going out, and then there's back and forth and things that we didn't expect. Further down the line, like dave said, it's just wasting everybody's time, isn't it? So it's just to make sure that we're understanding as much as we can at that pre-app stage. So doing the pause code checker advises, you know, especially, as I said, if they've been out face-to-face to the house, just understanding a little bit more regarding the property, the internals, things like that, before the application comes in, and then at least we've got kind of, you know, the homework side done before the surveyor goes out then. So there's no further delays.
Speaker 1:No thanks, lindsay. I think it's an interesting point you made. I mean, I think it is easier for sometimes for advisors if they are going out face to face and seeing the property themselves to make some of those judgments. But I think we've got to recognize that in this day and age a lot of advice is happening virtually either over the phone or via video technology. So again, embracing that theme of comprehensive conversations, I think making sure that advisors are asking customers detailed questions about the property up front is important, but also engaging with the services that are available.
Speaker 1:Again, you know, I should say for AIR, our integration with Knowledge Bank should be very helpful in helping advisors understand what criteria is suitable for different lenders, but also AIR's inquiry service as well I think you know all the lenders around this table sort of embrace, sort of prompt responses to Ayers Inquiry Service as well.
Speaker 1:So I think those are resources that advisors sort of need to use in terms of trying to make the journey sort of more efficient. But certainly I think we're all agreeing there's lots of work still to be done, I think, on the end-to-end process to try and improve the experience and make things more efficient. So, moving on maybe to sort of final sort of question, and always at this sort of stage of the year, I like to sort of, you know, ask people to get their crystal balls out and sort of look forward to the remainder of the year. So I'll turn to you first, nick. So you know, what are your sort of expectations for the market for the remainder of 2025 and and and maybe sort of what, what, what are your sort of asks of um the sector, whether that be regulators, trade bodies or organizations such as there, in terms of how we can really help you as a business step up and meet your objectives?
Speaker 3:uh, I, think our, I think in terms of market for the year, I think we expect, um, probably more of the same. As you know, as we saw last year, I think we'll hope for a bit of growth, but whether we see that coming through or not, you know whether we have any more of those short-term speed bumps I've referenced earlier. You know that they're not helpful. So I think that you know it's actually our market. Feedback from advisors is really mixed. We see some people having their best years ever and that's, you know, medium-sized and larger firms in. You know specialists in our market busiest they've ever been better than their best years, and other firms decided actually we're turning away from this. We're focusing on other areas of the mortgage market that are more supportive at the moment. So it really makes really difficult to pin down a consistent overview or view of the markets In terms of.
Speaker 3:I think what we need to do is, on one hand, you could say we should stick to our knitting and press on with the things that we're doing, because what we're doing is a lot of really good work and it's a lot of the right stuff, but you know, testing that it might not be the right stuff because we're not actually moving forward at the pace that we all want to move forward at.
Speaker 3:So, you know, are there, are there any? You know, what are we missing? And I suppose, in terms of collaboration, I suppose the big ask would be, you know, putting our heads together, making sure we have more of this type of forum, more of this type of dialogue to say, actually, you know, collectively, what do we need to do to find those angles, those little bits of difference that we can make that will help us move forward. We'll all compete like cat and dog in terms of fighting for our market share, but that's absolutely fair. What we've got to do and collaborate together is to grow the size of the market so we can fight for our share.
Speaker 1:And Dave turning to you, as Nick called out, we're still in quite a volatile market from an interest rate perspective and we're still a fairly uncertain geopolitical climate out there, which might cause funders to look at maybe high LTV products in a different light. What would be your message to advisors when thinking about sort of that environment that we're operating in at the moment?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think we've. Well, I've certainly latched on to Nick's speed bump analogy. So look, 2025 is going to have some speed bumps. The geopolitical environment right now means which way are interest rates going to go? I do expect to see some curtailment, actually in high LTV segment of the market for the next few months, hopefully then blossoming again as new funders come into the market, which certainly we'll try and make happen more to life.
Speaker 4:But I think, overall, my crystal ball because that's all it can be at the moment is we are over the worst. You know, 23 was tough, 24 was tough, 25 is not easy just yet. But if we all lean in, if we can all collaborate more than compete at the moment in order that we can get a consistent voice out, a choir singing the same notes loudly, I think we can grow the market. Collectively we can grow the market. So I think events like this are good, where you can see all three lenders around this table have got a consistent view of what needs to happen.
Speaker 4:I think we need to encourage everyone lenders and advisors to get behind things like the Comprehensive Conversations campaign. We've got to encourage trade bodies to do the same, regulators to do the same, and if we do that, then advisors are set to be heroes. Heroes because if they get out there and they go and talk to their introducers or they go and see customers, those customers have needs and behind those customers there are still, you know, the trillions of housing equity the biggest asset that exists for customers in the UK is sat there and needs to be properly used, and advisors are the key to that. So I'm confident that growth will return, but it will only return if we lenders continue to innovate. And brokers whether you're a specialist, a mainstream broker or a wealth manager you need to stare in the mirror, realize you're a hero, change the way in which you go about providing advice, get out there and talk to your introducers, get out there and talk to customers, and this market is set to grow again.
Speaker 1:Just building on the hero analogy, I think one thing that heroes do is they act now, and I think for me. You know we can spend a lot of time staring into crystal balls and trying to predict the future, but actually I think our message to our members would be there are great products available now to meet the needs of your customers. Get out there, secure the KFIs, handhold the customers through the process, because we don't know what rates are going to look like, we don't know what product availability is going to look like. So, whether it's the customer sitting in front of you today or the customer you saw six or 12 months ago, I think you know engage with them and try and help them here and now to fulfill their needs. But, lindsay, maybe sort of last sort of word for you.
Speaker 1:I think you know we saw some really encouraging words from the CEO of the FCA at the JP Morgan conference going back sort of 10 days ago, about the value that later life lending can have for customers in older age, and I think there is a sort of change in mood, music which sort of goes into the conversations, hopefully, that the sector will be able to have with the FCA through their consultation on the evolution of the mortgage market. So what, what would you like to see in the remainder of the year in terms of, maybe, how sort of the, the regulator or public policy changes, in terms of the, the framing of later life lending and the opportunities it creates for for customers?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think there's going to be lots of exciting times ahead.
Speaker 2:Like we've said previously, there's lots of opportunity out there.
Speaker 2:You know it might not be change overnight, but I think it's as dave said as well 2025 is we're definitely on the on the up and you know the opportunity is there from the regulators point of view, I think, just understanding the needs a little bit more and understanding you know the opportunity is there from the regulator's point of view, I think, just understanding the needs a little bit more and understanding you know how much impact this is going to have on on clients retirement.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of education is still needed, which you'd think now, in this day and age, that we wouldn't still be in that position, but I think we still are, even from an introducer point of view and definitely from a consumer point of view, and it's just all working together in helping everybody understand and the opportunities that are available in later life and what that actually means for someone's retirement journey. So I think the biggest one is probably education and understanding and working together to make sure that we you know, we all bring that into the sector together to help it grow more strongly well.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much, lindsay, and hopefully this podcast and the remainder of the the air podcast series will help with some of that that education, as well. So thank you all for your your time today. It's certainly been another comprehensive conversation, so so very much sort of welcome your input, and I think I've certainly taken away a couple of actions, whether it be a sort of forecast, sort of planning tool, or splicing and dicing the sourcing systems to provide a more comprehensive and holistic sort of view for advisors. So we'll certainly take that away. But thank you again for your time.
Speaker 1:I think we're looking ahead to a very exciting remainder of the year in 2025, but not without its speed bumps. But certainly the market is one that is going to continue to grow and step up to the needs of customers. So thank you again and have a good day. Thank you for listening to the master later life lending podcast. If you've enjoyed our comprehensive conversations, then please take a moment to leave a review on the app or your favorite podcast platform. Make sure to subscribe too so you never miss an episode, and follow us on social media for exclusive content.