Master Later Life Lending - By Air
The "Master Later Life Lending" podcast is designed specifically for equity release specialists and mainstream mortgage advisors who serve clients over the age of 50. Hosted by industry veteran Paul Glynn, our mission is to equip you with the knowledge and tools needed to excel in the dynamic world of later life lending.
Each episode features in-depth discussions with leading experts, focusing on the unique financial needs of older borrowers. We tackle key issues such as dispelling myths around equity release, exploring the latest product innovations, and understanding the regulatory changes that impact your practice.
Our goal is to empower you to provide the best advice and solutions to your clients, whether they are traditional equity release customers or emerging younger later life borrowers. By staying ahead of market trends and enhancing your expertise, you can build trust with your clients and grow your advisory practice.
Join us on this journey to mastering later life lending, and ensure you’re equipped to meet the evolving needs of your clients. Subscribe now to stay informed, inspired, and ahead in this crucial segment of financial services.
Master Later Life Lending - By Air
AI, Automation & Advice: Can Smarter Technology Really Elevate Your Business?
In this tech-focused episode of Master Later Life Lending, host Will Hale is joined by Ray McCarthy (Air), Shane Chawatama (Knowledge Bank), and Andy Longhurst (Lead Tech) to explore one of the most pressing questions facing advisers today: Can smarter technology actually help deliver better client outcomes, or is it just more noise in an already busy market?
We unpack the real potential of AI and automation in advice delivery, from boosting compliance and reducing admin, to enhancing client conversations and future-proofing your business. But we also look at the challenges: Are advisers ready to adopt these tools? Does more data always mean better advice? How do we ensure technology enhances the human touch rather than replacing it?
Whether you’re tech-curious or tech-cautious, this episode offers a grounded, practical look at how smarter tools can help you work more efficiently, meet regulatory demands, and deliver more personal, high-quality advice.
Welcome to Master Later Life Lending, the podcast where we explore the latest trends, challenges and opportunities in the later life lending market. I'm your host, Will, and whether you're an equity release specialist or a mainstream mortgage advisor, this show is designed to help you stay ahead of the curve as you navigate the unique needs of older clients. In this episode, we're asking the question can smarter technology help you deliver better advice? We're tackling some of the biggest shifts in financial services technology. As advisors, we're facing increased regulation, rising client expectations and growing complexity in later life lending. But what if technology could make your job easier, not harder? We've got expert insights lined up from Shane Shatawama at Knowledge Bank and Annie Longhurst at Leetech to help you understand how technology is shaping the future of later life lending.
Speaker 1:So let's get started to life lending. So let's get started. So, guys, let's get straight into the first one of the questions. So the first thing I want to explore a little bit is the AI learning curve. So the question for me is are advisors ready to adapt? What are the biggest barriers stopping advisors from adopting smarter tools from a technology sense, and how can firms ensure that they're using AI effectively rather than just adding more complexity to their processes and I'm going to pass that one on to you, initially, Andy, I think, to come back on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks Will, I think. Look, you know, we speak to a number of firms and advisors out in the market. Adoption varies at the moment. We're seeing that, you know, some firms are far more ahead than others. What stops it is mindset, though I think that's what we're seeing.
Speaker 2:You know, biggest barrier in changing any industry is a fear of the unknown. You know, and settling for what we know rather than what we need to do to change. We know advisors lack time to sort of enable them to spend time and focus on what they need to do to change. And then obviously, there's concerns around regulatory risk and lack of control that maybe they feel that's going to happen. So, yeah, mindset's the biggest challenge, um, but actually, you know, I I doesn't need to be, doesn't need to be difficult.
Speaker 2:And for advisors, right now, we advise most that they sort of start small and and start to look at tangible changes that that can make the biggest differences. You know we've built ai into our existing workflows, but we haven't added new systems, we haven't't added new jargon, we've just tried to create better outcomes. So you know that's what we sort of start with our recommendations to advisors. They start small. Look at their low hanging fruit. Look at how they can re-engage with the client bank they currently sit with and do that efficiently. How can they improve their appointment setting? Starting with something at the front end is advisable, because there's no risk to that other than getting more engagement with consumers.
Speaker 1:Thanks, andy and Shane. Does that sort of concur with your thoughts, particularly that point around my mindset, I suppose that's one I'm interested to explore a bit further.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, exactly, it really does what Andy's saying and it's one of those that's hard to stop yourself nodding away, um, as he's speaking over there. So definitely concur with that. Um, yeah, on the mindset, I suppose. Maybe I take it to that's what's the next level, the next level or peel, peel the layer back, um, and it's a trust and understanding, isn't it? It is, it's something that's new and you've got to to trust it. You've got to trust that it's going to bring something to your business as an advisor Advisors in the mortgage industry, you know I was one for a long time Our clients are precious to us, our roles are precious and important to us, and to do anything that might challenge that or might throw any harm anywhere near any of that is a threat. That or might throw any harm anywhere near any of that it's a threat. So I think there's a big piece of trusting the technology that is going to be implemented and trusting how it's going to end. I think when we look at AI, there's a little bit of scaremongering going around. There's a few areas that would make an advisor a little bit reluctant to go that way. And then the understanding. The understanding is a piece again that they want to understand fully, from front end to the back end. What does AI do? What do the different types of AI mean? What can they actually bring to the table? That is so, so important. So when we speak with lenders when I speak with lenders not just brokers, but lenders about technology that we have and the way that we can help them, I have to really take it back to the basics of sales generally understanding what is their problem, helping them to identify what their problem is and then working back from there to see which technology fits best within that. So that's just what I would add them to say there.
Speaker 3:One element I wanted to bring into it as well and I wonder what you thought of this, andy is tech fatigue. I think there's so much tech out there in our industry. In prepping for this, I was kind of looking at it and thinking about okay, what's the tech journey been like in the mortgage industry in the last few years? Last 15 years, I've been in the industry and changes have been coming in. The pace has really picked up over the last year or so, and I think tech fatigue can play a role, because as an advisor, you're busy enough, as it is looking after your clients, looking after your compliance, looking after the things that you know you have to do, and you've got all these things flying around, all these webinars talking to you about tech and what's out there, and sometimes the fatigue in itself is what ends up being the blocker. Um, I don't know what you think on that, andy yeah, yeah, absolutely, I think we're tech.
Speaker 2:I mean, look, it's a fast-moving industry and and tech, you know, maybe more so now is is is across all age groups. You know, tech isn't isn't just for adults and tech isn't just for business it's. You know, it starts at a sort of infant's level, really, and carries right through. But I think there's a role to play in how tech is adopted and, you know, I think that encouragement and training will need to come from the networks and the providers and the support mechanisms, the affiliates out in the market that can do it. Well, as I said, I don't think it's about advisors having to do all this and be great at doing it all, because there's a number of providers that can support along each part of the journey and and enable it and actually enabling ai into your business, whether that's in in sort of note-taking or co-pilot, it is really simple and offers massive, tangible outcomes.
Speaker 2:But embedding a brand new tech process from end to end isn't necessary. It really isn't. I think that's where maybe advisors are running away thinking where's the end goal? Well, don't worry about that. There's a, there's a. There's a number of steps to get there and take it one step at a time, naturally, I think. Then naturally you embed tech because you become more confident and competent in embedding change within your business. But yeah, you change it all and I think that's where things fall off.
Speaker 1:So Andy, let's I mean let's sort of explore some of that a bit more.
Speaker 1:I like that idea of starting small because I do think it can overcome what Shane was saying about sort of tech fatigue. What Shane was saying about sort of tech fatigue, I mean, when I talk to lots of our members, and some of whom are sort of members of larger firms and bigger networks, I think their experience of tech has often been quite negative. They've sort of seen sort of big IT, sort of change projects, things like CRM implementations or changing of sourcing platforms et cetera, and it's been quite onerous for them and they've seen it as a sort of time taker from their business and they've probably not seen the direct benefits of engaging with that technology. But I mean, you quoted a couple of examples there, andy, whether it be sort of use of Copilot for note-taking and things like that, where I would imagine that an advisor could get immediate value. So is is that sort of what you're? You're saying is sort of try and pick those things that can, yeah, put time back in your day and start there and engage with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, I mean, ultimately it's it's headspace and time, I'd say, are the two biggest things.
Speaker 2:You know advisors need to to find the headspace to free them up so they can spend more time listening to customers and advising them and actually, you know, creating a better delivery and peace of mind.
Speaker 2:But freeing up time is the invaluable resource that every business wants, because adding more time into your day is like adding more workforce into your business at no extra cost.
Speaker 2:Your day is like adding more, more workforce into your business at no extra cost. So what you can do to you know we know that post post meetings, you know that takes 15, 20, 30 minutes to to wrap up your notes, to identify the key actions and tasks, and then you've got to then find a process to remember how to action them, and you know what would that look like if advisors were getting that time back. You know 15 minutes back in every meeting that they had and a process that's creating an efficient and consistent outcome for them every time in a manner that means that it's very easy for them to to sort of read the next steps that are required. So, yeah, for me it's just looking at the full journey and identifying what is it that you can you can buy most time back from right now. What is it that you can buy most time back from right now? And then you know, is there any opportunities there where you can potentially re-engage to enhance the customer experiences that you've currently got on your books?
Speaker 1:And Shane, that must dovetail quite neatly with the knowledge bank proposition, because really that's what knowledge bank helps advisors do, isn't it? In terms of putting more sort of time back into their day, so an efficient way of looking at lender criteria and making sure they get to the right product outcome sort of first time. I suppose that's my rather simplistic view of the the proposition, but but, but how would you sort of build on andy's comments there around? You know what knowledge bank particularly delivers for advisors in terms of time savings yeah, yeah, I know exactly what.
Speaker 3:I think you've delivered it brilliantly over there. In what we do, we like to keep everything simple, um, but it is. It is exactly that when you're having your your calls with your clients and you're gathering all this fantastic information through through your fact finding um process. Yeah, knowledge bank fits in in helping you to identify out of all the lenders you've got available, all the lenders on your panel, which can, you know, shrink that down for you to. Okay, these three are the ones to to look at, these are the three to move forward with um and you can then work out where the greatest probability is for yourself in terms of place in that case, given your own experience and knowledge of the market.
Speaker 3:Um, and no knowledge bank in itself and you know, point that end was talking but the note-taking, the role that that can play in it, that's something that I actually utilize myself. You know something so straightforward, set up within Zoom I know teams also will do it through CorePilot, I believe but you're able to get the notes and all the important information that you need to build a follow-on for a follow-up meeting for and it's brilliant AI is brilliant at taking that information out and picking up that important information. But do you know what it misses? It misses the empathy, it misses the emotional side. You know it misses the.
Speaker 3:You know we used to call them the soft facts in the brokerage. It misses that other information, that other area that the computer deems that's not really important, we don't really need that, and it takes what it needs and it knows is important. And it misses the other areas where I think advisors bring so much value um into, into that piece. But with ai itself, let's say, take the information for you, you're then able to just, yeah, jump onto um, the system, use knowledge bank to then filter out all my lenders. Who can I look to take this forward with um and it does fit in well, and that's in that spot I suppose so actually that's quite a neat link to the next question because I wanted to explore that.
Speaker 1:Certainly some advisors that I've spoken to you know fear ai. They fear AI in terms of it potentially replacing them within the process. They fear how maybe large banks or insurance companies, or indeed lenders, might use AI in order to sort of cut advisors out of the process. Do you think that's a realistic fear and, if so, sort of how can advisors make sure that they sort of mitigate the risk of that happening?
Speaker 3:I'd say I don't know. It's 100% it's a threat. I'd say it definitely is a threat and it's something advisors should be aware of and should be wary of. You know, she should keep in mind and know that that's a possibility, that's a route they might go. In this phase, the banks will look to do things in the cheapest, most effective and quickest way.
Speaker 3:But, like I say, as far as with that point around the information of the AI and the role that the AI can play, it does have limits. It does have limits to it. It cannot bring into it the area that is so important within late-to-life. When you're dealing with clients in that situation, in the scenarios they are in, for the reasons that they are most often looking to capital raise, you know, based on some of the data that we get from searches on Knowledge Bank, the reasons they're looking to capture rates, they're looking to deal with those funds. When you're looking at it from an advice piece, the AI cannot look after the client in that journey. It can't apply empathy, it can't apply the right human interaction or interface to it to make them comfortable with those scenarios and with those situations. So, though, I think the advisor should be wary of it, and I think the firms could at some stage work to that position.
Speaker 3:I think currently, right now, advisors should be using that fear to not build a wall in front of them and make it afraid to push on in this industry, but instead it's a thing that's chasing you. It's a thing that's pushing you forward, pushing you towards ai, pushing you towards technology, into asking the right questions. How can I get to more clients? How can I create the time and create the space to have more conversations with my clients? And that is in this. You know, based on what we're discussing, that is, implementing the right technology at the right points, um, to make sure you are as efficient, um as possible for your clients. Again, like andy has been saying, creating more time to speak to them, um about what really matters so.
Speaker 1:So, andy, it's about you. It's about using ai to almost improve the human interaction. Is that how you say it?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah yeah, look, ai is a chore. It's not a competition okay, you know it's not a competitor of the advisor, and I think that's the key and, as you've said, shane, you know it's, you can't, you can't replace that empathy and the clarity and reassurance. Uh, you know, and what the advisor brings is irreplaceable really within that, within that process, um, and it's the same with the big banks, and you know the advisor brings is irreplaceable really within that process, and it's the same with the big banks and you know the providers is that you know they've got the reach and they've got the access, but they'll lack the trust that the advisors bring within that whole relationship with a consumer. And that isn't something that AI can build. You know, as we've said, it lacks that empathy and the soft facts that really build those relationships with consumers. So that's super important.
Speaker 2:I'd say really that, in terms of the need to adapt, you know that's critical because the big companies out there, the banks and so on, they will be progressing with this and ultimately, you know, at some point their focus might be on product transfers and the fear of doing nothing is that you get slipped out of the supply chain. So you know you have to progress and move forward. We're not there yet, but clearly you know, if you look down the funnel things will eventually change. But that's not going to replace human interaction.
Speaker 3:That's definitely a key aspect which is still going to be critical.
Speaker 3:Critical in this, I think we've got to remember as well um, sorry, we're to jump on remember as well our customer within all of this.
Speaker 3:Um, they're also going through the same journey with tech, you know, with ai, you know my, my friends, um, that aren't in the, in the industry, when we are talking about talking about ai, they're all going through the same fears, the same concerns, as everyone else is. So the advisors, customers, are in that exact same boat. They're not rushing off to the banks to implement it. They're not going to be trying to run away from the advisor and try and find a slicker, faster way to do it, because that is going to be the selling point for the banks Be faster with it, be more efficient. They're not going to be looking for that. They're still going to be wanting a trusted advisor to walk them through it, because that is human nature. That is what we want and I think that is what's going to keep this market important and keep advisors important. Hence why, again, educating yourself, understanding how it all works, truly understanding it. It makes you the go-to person for your client. It means that you're the one that they're going to seek out and trust your advice on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you know, if the advisors use it wisely and you know, going back to small steps, isn't it? You know it's going to strengthen their position. But I think AI is there to support the heavy lifting is to help them respond quicker, you know, understand needs better, identify, identify key aspects and then deliver more relevant advice, and I think that's sort of the the loop. That's that's where I can, that's where advisors add value, but if they can remove all the noise, then they can get to that, that value-added aspect, far quicker and and and on that theme, andy, and perhaps playing specifically to the areas where lead tech can support.
Speaker 1:One of the biggest challenges for advisors in the later life market is acquiring new customers. They can spend a lot of time and effort trying to do that, some effectively so, some not so effectively. So so where can lead tech, and particularly your technology solutions sort of help advisors on that customer acquisition side?
Speaker 2:yeah, uh. So data is a big driver for us, you know, in in terms of maybe, how things within the past, we we built out a data science team over two years ago with the aim to drive better outcomes, but doing it by understanding first the data, and that's not easy and that's not easy for a lot of businesses to do, because to understand data, you do need to employ a data science and data engineers and create data lakes so you can get tangible data in one place and that's the same for all. Ai is that. What feeds ai is data and reliable data. So we start with that aspect of understanding the data, the data of live transactions that have happened down the funnel that we can then start to feed back in to our bidding process so that that enables a better, a better outcome.
Speaker 2:And you know there's there's lots of changes happening.
Speaker 2:But whereas we support advisors in identifying the right types of consumers in the market that are out there looking for the types of products that they're aligned to, we can go another step further and we can start to integrate within that live conversations with consumers to better understand their needs and drive the intent, before then getting them in front of an advisor.
Speaker 2:So there's a number of services that we now do, no different to ai. It's about picking up the heavy lifting at the front of the journey, and advisors don't want to spend all their time, energy and money marketing unsuccessfully, because it will be unsuccessful in the long run, because it's a challenging market and the big players will definitely win every time on that. And that's where an affiliate like lead tech can support, because we we have the power to then become one of the bigger players in the market. Um, but it's all about freeing up time. So advisors don't want leads, they don't want lots of dead inquiries, they want real and real conversations where they can have and add value to that consumer's needs. And it's moving all that noise at the front out of the way and providing advisors with the best ability to convert a conversation through to a client.
Speaker 1:And Shane, you're playing probably a slightly different part of the process, but I would presume that the data is at the heart of sort of what, the value that you're adding to to advisors as well, that that aggregation of all of the lender criteria and putting that in a usable format again to help advisors get to the right answer in the most efficient way possible. Again, it must start with data on your side as well, does it not?
Speaker 3:so so, so much so, so, so much so. I mean the the data is incredibly, um, important and it's incredibly valuable and, as andy mentioned over there, it holds its value when it's held in the right way and utilized in the right way as well. Um, I've had several tellings off from my tech team for not quite thinking through the process. When I create sales processes, I'm like this is going to happen and this is going to happen. This is the client's journey until they get to us and then they just ask a couple of. Once they say it, it seems like a very simple, obvious question that I've never that I haven't asked myself when I'm creating a process. And that's their understanding of data. You know they're explaining Shane, this data is going to sit in this place. Once it's in there, what do you want to use it for after? You know so it is so, so important. There's so many ways you can go with it, and that's kind of just us on ourselves, with our brokers and our clients. You mentioned the criteria there Will. It's a huge area. It's the biggest area. We're talking to our lenders putting criteria in to try and gold a client or the broker into applying into. You know that that famous tagline just dip it. We don't want that. We want it to be accurate information, um. So we constantly speaking with our lenders and educate them on the value and importance of that data, because we want to make sure anything our brokers use, the rules are working accurately and they're giving them the right information at the outset, because it'll break the whole system to lose their trust that they've worked very, very hard to build up with their clients. So, yeah, it is so, so valuable.
Speaker 3:That piece on data. It's a little bit, I suppose, a little bit separate to it, but there's so many firms within the industry right now that are using AI in one way, shape or form. One of them that advisors may have seen would have been a couple of lenders that are creating chatbots or that are creating bots that can help them with criteria and talk them through journeys. Now that's something that is so challenging and difficult to build into an AI model. And again, it comes onto data and it comes onto how that data works, how the data is accessible and who can access the data, the various roles that need to be in play for it. I'm sure some of the listeners will have seen or heard about the challenges with things like chat, gpt and some of the other areas where they're getting data from questioning all of that, and it's all kind of linked to that how you implement that, how you use that and how you make that available.
Speaker 3:That's where, for us, a criteria sourcing platform, there is still that value and that's why we haven't jumped at something like that, because actually we've looked at it, we've assessed it jumped at something like that because actually we've looked at it, we've assessed it and we say that right now, with the ai journey, the advisors need something where they they are putting in the exact data and exact information they're looking for. They know exactly what they want to get out of it, um, and they know that best, as opposed to necessarily yet yet implementing or relying on ai to do the heavy lifting over there. But it certainly will be something that will come in, I am sure, um, but right now it feels a bit early, um, because I'm not sure that the data that is then being given back out is accurate. I don't think it's learned enough quite yet it's interesting.
Speaker 1:I mean, you mentioned chatbots as a. As a customer who's engaged with various ai driven chatbots across different journeys, I'm a little bit sceptical of the sort of value they bring. But, andy, you must use them within your processes, do you not? What does a good chatbot interaction look like, I suppose, for customers in this space?
Speaker 2:I mean, look, we've steered away from on-site chatbots purely because, you know, for us it's about trying to get that engagement with a consumer. But bringing chat into the engagement process is absolutely a critical part now and that's an area where we've been heavily investing in because we know that, for starters, not all consumer inquiries are a nine to five inquiry. So let's be honest, you know, a chatbot allows a 24-7 assistant to support a consumer when they need it, rather than having to wait. And we know when someone's looking for an inquiry and looking for information, that fires remorse and it degrades very quickly, as we know in the industry, very quickly, as we know in the industry. So, having some form of interaction where you can start to engage with the consumer in a soft manner but build up a story and for us what's critical is that we can start to build intent within that period and we can start to identify key trust signals and key areas that need to be delivered in those early conversations, knowing that when it hits a certain trust score or an intense score, that we can then bring that into a live conversation and back into an advisor or call agent that can then engage with that consumer. Bring those soft skills back in and then move them into the next phase, which would be a qualified appointment into an advisor's diary.
Speaker 2:So there is a part to play. Um, you know, this isn't a world where consumers are willingly picking up telephone calls and being bombarded in all directions. So there is a need to engage with consumers at a pace and and in a manner that they're they're expecting now. But you know, there's, there's some way to go with that, you know, and there's this constant testing and that's a big part of our journey that we're driving through at the moment. But again, it's back to the data and making sure that data feeds that information so that that doesn't damage the relationship very early on.
Speaker 1:I suppose the other area to think about in terms of data and monitoring is on the sort of quality assurance side, again particularly important in our market. The regulator is rightly looking for firms to evidence sort of good outcomes and making sure that sort of file checking processes are robust. But those sort of processes can be sort of quite costly for firms to put in place, particularly if you're monitoring a high percentage of cases. So do you guys see opportunities there for implementation of technology, and particularly AI, within those sort of compliance and risk management processes again? Maybe Shane start with you on that one yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 3:I mean, if we look at it from a technology just general technology first and then onto AI you look at one of the key wins that you have with the knowledge bank system is the evidence of research. You know the way that we can capture that, capture everyone. You searched the date, all the criteria that you saw. That really helps advisors in making sure that compliance is ready. And it's good to go from the outset, isn't it? Because that's the old adage is you don't want to come in and tidy it up once the horse is bolted, because it's too late then and it's a lot more time-consuming, shall I say, coming to that stage, it's all about implementing it on the early stages. The role that AI can play is is huge there. I think for me, this is perhaps where there's a balancing act for the advisors to work out, and discovering the knowledge is so important because I totally agree with the points and I made earlier start small, um and lean into technology that way, into ai that way. But I think, if you can do something around your compliance, which is relatively big, it's a big part of it or carries a lot of weight for it and might be a big project, working it into compliance because it's within those processes that you've got. I think that will have probably the biggest time saver and the biggest return on investment for it, because not only is it saving you time but it is also making sure more cases go through first time.
Speaker 3:And when we look at when I think of AI and how it can work from a compliance aspect I'm talking from it starting from ID checks and verification, pay slips, going over your fact find documents being uploaded and it gathers the right information that kind of work over there. It removes the broke error, you know. It removes admin error, it removes all those elements and just means it's accurate. Um, and you're more checking the information with the client as opposed to necessarily relying on them to give you that information, you know. Get gathering information like your credit report etc. You do all of that at the start. When you do a fact find, you implement ai early on. That's working with your compliance and that is saving that time for you early as opposed to to to at the back end, when it then becomes a much bigger job and a much bigger role. And I know, know, a few advisors are already utilizing that with AI now.
Speaker 1:And Andy on your side, lead providence is probably something that's sort of come to the fore in sort of recent years, so I assume that sort of technology can help with that in terms of tracing that sort of customer journey from outset into an advisor, because that, again is is a requirement from a regulatory perspective these days, is it not?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, I think transparency in the industry is critical, you know, and ensuring that you've got a transparent journey that you can evidence, starting from where the customer, what tailored journey the customers come on. Importantly, you know that you can, you can feed that through um, you know, I think, in terms of sort of audit trails, as we know, you know, will become and is a big, big factor in being able to demonstrate the conversations that have happened. Certainly, the way the chatbots will start to integrate means that you can then evidence all of that conversation description that's already taken place and that will be delivered in a manner that's available to the advisor and then, hopefully, a point where that then starts to pass into a fact find, so that there's lack of duplication. But, as you said, shane, there's a lack of human error as well, because you're actually capturing it and passing that through the funnel. It's not a silver bullet.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know we still will need compliance people within the industry, but I think what it does is, again, it takes away some of that manual task that's still required. This, that manual task that's still required. This isn't replacing compliance in its entirety, but I think, if you look at those obvious things such as identifying the audit trail and vulnerable customers. We know that at the moment, the identification of vulnerable customers is based on one person's human sort of identifications to what they believe is a vulnerable customer, and we'll be able to embed that into AI and identify, through key questions, whether there's a score matrix that identifies someone falls more into that bracket than another. So I think all those aspects are really exciting. They'll be the sort of changing it's changing direction. Um, that will support advisors, but it's it's not there to replace compliance. It's our 24 7 compliance officer that sits in the background but doesn't cost us anywhere near as much and I suppose that's a key consideration.
Speaker 1:Isn't it the sort of commit I mean? We've talked about a lot on this call already, but it goes back to almost. What we start on, I think, is what would be your advice for advisors about where to start, because there's a lot to go out here. But but where will advisors get the most bang for their buck, I suppose? And technology, where would your views be on that?
Speaker 2:well, from my perspective, don't. Don't focus your energy and efforts on trying to do lead acquisition, because it is a costly process and you know you'll lack the data insights to start with, um, you know, and that's that's. That's where a good affiliate will, will work and support you on those aspects and they'll do all that, that integration at the front end, and they'll invest heavily in those areas. So you don't have to. So, really, from an advisor's perspective, they want to almost picking it up at appointment level, um, but for me it's it's back to that low hanging fruit making sure that you're saving time in your diary right now.
Speaker 2:And that's that's a vital element for any advisor I'm sure they'll agree is that if they can find time back and that frees them up to then focus on other areas of their business where they can drive more, more referrals, more, more conversations, better quality conversations that, for me, is critical. So, using those note taking AI aspects that, for me, is critical. So, using those note taking AI aspects, using those sort of copilot formats that allow you to to sequence next step, next level tasks and support you in some of that admin lifting that's that's where advisors start to put their focus. But don't invest heavily into marketing because just using affiliate, just focus on the journey and ensuring that you identify where your pinch points are right now. And it's there to support. It's there to offer some heavy lifting where advisors maybe are not as proficient as others.
Speaker 1:Thanks, andy, and from your side, shane.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for me, I would say the place to start is probably my purpose around data is what comes to mind. For me it's around the data, so it's within those meetings, as Andy has said, and gathering the information that you're gathering from your clients is kind of point one, area, one around it how you're gathering that information, because that's how you start to teach your AI, that's how it starts to learn and it starts to grow from there. And I believe if you can get your AI to, or your AI journey, get it to start from helping you understand and learn your client and your customer better, I think it puts you in a good position. If you're to say, start now, starting Q2, it puts a really good position over the rest of the year to then implement it into your annual planning for 2026, for example. You know, come October, november, you're planning the following year. You've then got a good level of data and information about your clients. You've perhaps got a better understanding of what AI can do and where it can help you improve and that can get you going. So it's going to be around that data, the data collection and the role that it would play for you within there.
Speaker 3:Andy, you've made a point about you know don't kind of start with marketing, and maybe this would be one to for for me to better understand that, maybe for some of the advisors, because I like ai in marketing, but when I think of ai in marketing I'm thinking from you know areas as in getting you started on on packs that you send to your customers, getting you started on I don't know things like any literature that you might write or provide to clients, getting you started on those kind of areas for brokers. That's something that I perhaps think has got value and again could be a good place to start. What are your thoughts and what do you mean when you say marketing and don't so much? What do you mean within that?
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, more digital marketing, I'd say shane, I'd say client engagement, so sort of going back to that low hanging fruit from an advisor's perspective. Re-engagement with past clients or lapsed clients or or lead inquiries, appointments that they've sat but have never progressed that's super low hanging fruit because you've you've engaged with someone who's shown an intent or interest in the market but hasn't progressed forward. So how you can market to them is absolutely a critical area, whether you're doing that through marketing packs and manual sort of dialing and you know marketing packs out into the post or again're using ai integration, which allows you to have a speedy outbound strategy to engage and entice consumers to have a live conversation and bringing them back in. So that's areas we're starting to support customers we've been in. How can we take data and use it in the right way to re-engage a consumer and push them back into the funnel at a period when they need it, you know.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of complexity in data, isn't there? Data is very overfacing if it's not treated in the right fashion, and I think data is there to create a clearer picture of the client ultimately, and not just a bigger one. You know, and ultimately I think that's the aim of data is that you've got to use it in the right manner. So picking through some of that low hanging fruit, absolutely. But that doesn't need to be heavy investment in terms of going out and trying to win new business when you've already got lapsed and lost on your doorstep. It's just identifying how you go about approaching that and do you have the skills, capability and time to pick that up and do that, or is there a better source or support mechanism out there that can do that for you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely, I think of you know we're talking about data, then we keep circling around data piece, but I think it is so, so valuable. But I think of my role when I was managing a team of brokers. Our reviews would consist of me asking them to bring with them their business split. Where have you put your business? Which broad lenders have you used? We then go on to spend very little time on that, because the obvious reason I would ask them that is where are the gaps? Why is this broker who sits next to you and gets leads from the same pool? Why are they using different lenders? Who are these gaps? And that then would lead us to you're missing out on customers. Then aren't you the customers that you haven't placed? Of the 20 leads you've got, you've placed 10 of them um proof of conversion. The other 10 have been lost because you haven't used those, and I think that used to take quite a long time, which was quite a heavy lifting doing that, and I think that's maybe one of the areas where advisors again could use AI, could use some to understand their data better.
Speaker 3:Who are my clients? What am I good at? Who am I working most with and how do I further enhance that and grow that. And then also, yes, where are my gaps? Where am I maybe not quite delivering in terms of the client journey? What am I missing out and just helping them through that process as well? I think technology in general is brilliant for that kind of assistance, ai great for that. That's where, again, taking the data and starting early on in the process as possible initial meetings, etc. Then that compliance journey, because the ai will learn your client banker to learn who your kind of clients are, who you are as an advisor, and then there be able to guide you better on what is the best next step, as it were.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we'll often look at end-to-end journeys with companies and you've got the same journey, same lead source, same team, putting things into your diary, yet you're getting very different outcomes and you know you have to try and pick through that. A of that's down to process, you know, and human, human interactions, which are quite difficult sometimes to quantify. You can't always. You know the balance of how someone deals with a consumer versus another is quite different. Um, but you can lose a lot through the process if you're not efficient.
Speaker 2:And ai will help and support where advisors back to they don't have the time and they all have the skill set to to be good at doing all that pushing because they're obviously onto the next conversation on the next conversation. So there's a role to play there. There's a role to play in terms of the support mechanism. Most businesses don't have the facilities or the budget to expand their workforce out and add admin support into their business. Expand their workforce out and add admin support into their business and that's probably where the risk lies for some parts of the industry is more in that admin support, as to whether AI will pick up some of that heavy lifting and make the path, some of that budget back into the businesses that can use it in a different aspect of their company to drive better profit returns as well.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks, guys. I mean that's been a really fascinating conversation. I think a couple of sort of key takeaways for me is that you know, advisors can't afford to be head in the sand with technology. I think it's um, it's going to make a huge difference to business generally. So, no matter the size of the operation that you're involved in, you you need to embrace technology, but you need to do it in a way that works for you and your business. So be really clear about where you're going to start and make sure that you're using it in a way that is targeted and pinpointed to make the biggest difference to your business, whether that's a time saving or a process optimization.
Speaker 1:Be really clear about what the technology is going to deliver. And then, finally, you know we touched on it a number of times during the podcast but data and be clear about how you're collecting data and how you're using that data to best effect. So, yeah, I've certainly taken a lot from this call. So, thank you very much for your time, andy and Shane. And, yeah, look forward to watching this space carefully and seeing how the technology develops, because I'm sure we'll see lots of changes in the next six to 12 months as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, we will definitely, yeah, and really appreciate you having us on. Thanks, guys.
Speaker 1:Have a good day. Thank you for joining us through season three of our Master Later Life Lending podcast. I've been your host, will Hale. Keep an eye out for season four coming soon, with more industry leading expert discussions and brand new topics. Subscribe to our podcast and make sure to leave a review to help other advisors like yourself find our podcast.