Master Later Life Lending - By Air

Paul Glynn: Innovation, high LTV solutions & faster decisions

• Will Hale • Season 2 • Episode 3

Share episode

Send us your feedback!

In this Comprehensive conversation, our CEO Will Hale sits down with Paul Glynn, Managing Director of Sales & Marketing at more2life, this episode explores how product flexibility, enhanced overpayment options, and data-driven innovation are transforming later life lending, helping advisers deliver better outcomes, strengthen efficiency, and build stronger client relationships.

View our manifesto.

Follow us on Linkedin.

SPEAKER_00:

So, welcome to the latest in our series of comprehensive conversations. Today I'm joined by Paul Glynn from Mortal Life, who's Mortal Life's sales and marketing MD. So, Paul, welcome. Thanks, Will. So before we get into some of the questions, do you want to give us a little bit of an overview about your background in the industry and the role that you play at Mortal Life?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I'm happy to. I think I've uh I've been involved in equity release since 2004. Um really when the market was um rollerpoor reversion. There weren't really many of the features. There certainly weren't many lenders in the market at that time. So over that 20-year period, there's a massive amount of evolution. Seeing some lenders come in, some lenders go. Yep. Features arrive, but it's still the vibrant um marketplace that it always has been.

SPEAKER_00:

So let's get into sort of the topic around product innovation. So you touched on it a little bit there. That specifically sort of focusing on more to life, how are the changes that you're bringing to your product suite helping advisors deliver more tailored advice and better outcomes for customers?

SPEAKER_01:

So we've we recognize that you know the typical customer now is is not the same as it used to be. So the idea of a customer emerging in their 70s, single, probably female, asset rich, cash poor, um, living in a three-bedroom detached house is is gone. So customers are emerging in the market with more complex needs, with more debt than ever. Um so advisors need a toolkit that will certainly help them shape um and support those customers in a very different way, whether that's customers who need um competitively priced products for relatively low LTVs. Um, because that customer is interest rate sensitive, they're acutely aware of the impact of the roll-up of of interest over time, um, and they've got aspirations to protect that equity. Um, and they're being quite prudent with how they want to draw down funds from their property, um, all the way up to those customers who are emerging with existing debt, really finding that they're struggling to find a way through paying that off. Um, they're more LTV sensitive. Um, there could be quirkiness about the property itself, so they want a product which is um gonna give them a broad set of criteria to support with the property complexity, as well as a product which will give them access to a really high LTV to be able to satisfy that borrowing need. But at the same time, those customers are also aware of the impact of the relative debt over time. So they want us to design products which are gonna really help them manage that as well. Yeah. So there's a lot for us to do.

SPEAKER_00:

So we're speaking today at the Air Masterclass event in in London, and and one of the attendees of the session today was talking about the myths and misconceptions that still exist among sort of older customers regarding equity release. And I was reflecting on your presentation today, and you put up a slide showing the range of products that Mortal Life offer, and it and it's it it it really does cover the sort of full waterfront, as you said. But two things struck me. One you've touched on, which is the fact that you know equity release now shouldn't be seen as synonymous with roll-up because of the products that allow customers to serve interest, even repay capital using ad hoc repayment options. But also talk a little bit about the zero ERC product. Because again, a lot of customers I think feel that equity release is not flexible, that a lifetime mortgage means that it's a mortgage for life, but but you've got a zero ERC product.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and that was an interesting concept for us to bring to market because it's it's sort of challenging what you thought was the impossible. Um, but again, there's a cohort of customers where they're also sensitive to being banned into products for too long a period of time. So, you know, a 10-year ERC um does make people stop and think. And particularly if you've got people who have a recognized um need for equity release as a solution, but at the same time, they're looking at the fact that whilst it's a lifetime product, um you know, that they are sensitive to being bound into one interest rate for life with one lender, where you know, from experience, people do understand that rates and the rate environment can move around, and more importantly, their circumstances change. So that product was a collaboration with our partners in that maxi space to be able to say, well, could we create a product where the ERC was relevant for those customers, where there was something in the background that meant there's a change, an inheritance, sale of a property, something that meant there's an indeterminate term on that borrowing, but there's still an immediate need. I think the case study we used today was a good one where it was a parent looking to support you know, children onto the housing ladder. So an immediate need, you know, a noble thing to want to do in that family scenario. Um, but it was the ERC that that really was the barrier. But more importantly, you know, with that that customer was kind of really in a position where they were looking after quite ill parents, so they they knew that there was probably the chance of an inheritance in the near term, indeterminate term being the key bit because it's not short-term borrowing, it's something that is beyond the control of the customer. So, can we build into the product design something which for the right price in terms of changing interest rate or product shape would enable them to have that flexibility? So um, you know, that product really was born out of that type of need, and and it's a good example where if you're prepared to flex the product features for the right price in the hands of the right advisor, that's a really powerful piece of advice, a kit to support advice.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, that's a fantastic example because again, for me, it is all about advice, isn't it? I think there's rarely such a thing as a bad product, it's only a bad product if it's accompanied by bad advice. I think that's a that's a really sort of key theme. And and on that theme, just talk a little bit about your new Omniproduct. You you touched on it earlier, but you've brought out a product which plays in that maximum LTV space, so a space that hasn't been occupied for some time, and it's a gripe that I hear from Air members all the time that they see so many customers who've got a borrowing need that exceeds the LTV that's available from lenders. So talk a bit a little bit about that because although it's been positively received, it does come at quite a high interest rate. So just talk a little bit about that and how you see advisors using that product responsibly.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so we uh again we've approached that area of the market where we've got quite a lot of experience in in the broader elements of our product range. So we understand the sensitivity around the LTV, we understand that you know, in in referral partner client banks as well as equity release um advisor client banks, there are customers that you know, certainly since the post-trust era, we've not been able to support in in product designs because the LTVs just simply aren't high enough. Um, advisors have done their best to be able to try and personalize that through things like health. So you've got rated age to try and move the client up the LTV capabilities with you know, if they've got a rated age of a 75-year-old, the health of the 75-year-old and are only in the 60s, then that's one way of doing it. But we need a a business as usual product which can access those types of LTVs. So um our product design caters for that in that it's got um LTVs of different shapes in that space. But in the current environment, that also travels with quite high interest rates. So we've gone through all of our fair value assessments. Um, even at that high interest rate, we believe that if we can bring a product that satisfies both the customer shape, so it gets to the LTV, but more importantly, it's built in a way that addresses the complexities and the property shapes that aren't addressed by that part of the market at the moment, because it's not everywhere. Yep. Um, then if we build the right features around it, then we really think we can address a target market that our current range and certainly ranges of other lenders out there in the market don't get to. So Omni's really born out of build the right LTV shelves but have an underwriting footprint which is broad enough to be different and accommodate different property types. So if you look at the underwriting mandate and criteria for the Omni product, it covers things that in the rest of our range we can't access. So things like flats are in play, um, you know, things like high acreage properties, all those sorts of things come into play in a way that they don't in other areas of our product range. So we've been through that cycle of why would this product bring something different to market that we don't already do at that interest rate? Um, which then leaves us with how do we build into the product the right features and protections so the advisor can use it with the client to mitigate some of those high interest rate impacts. So, yes, the interest rate's high, but we've built into that product a lower ERC than many of our others, so a six-year ERC on a sliding scale. So the ERC is shorter, so the customer can have some freedom beyond that period to move if rates change. But more importantly, there's a couple of other things we're working on. The first is in the original launch, which is there's an overpayment capability that goes way beyond anything else in the Mortal Life range. Right. So it's 50% higher than the rest of our products. So there's a 15% um ERC-free payment capability on the product. Okay. Putting the advisor and the customer in control of the way that that interest rolls up. Um, and we are looking um at whether or not we can launch an interest reward version of that product because the discounts we think we can deliver at that end of the market are way more powerful than you'd see lower down the and just to be clear on the interest reward concept for some of our members who might not be aware of that.

SPEAKER_00:

So it says so those products effectively allow a discount to the rate as long as interest continues to be served.

SPEAKER_01:

Is that is that so that's what you'd slightly different to what you'd see in the core features on an equity release chassis where you make voluntary payments. So that ERC-free capability means that the customer can, on an ad hoc basis, make payments to try and mitigate the way that that uh interest rolls up. In the interest reward space, you are committing to make a payment. Um, doesn't mean it can't stop. Um, but the trade-off of making that commitment to say I'll pay£100 a month or£200,£300 a month, whatever that is, is that the economic benefit to the customer is we will discount the interest rate for a period or for the life of the product. And there's ways we can build that into our product design.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, what a great incentive for advisors to really looking at affordability and what customers are prepared to commit to to repay on a regular basis. Fantastic. So so moving on, but taking us back to a theme you actually were discussing there with Omni, and it's a subject that actually got raised at today's masterclass by one of the attendees around um sort of property characteristics and again the frustrations that advisors find around not being able to place some business um because of restrictions, but but also more than that, not being able to get to a quick decision around either yes or no. Um so talk a little bit about that challenge and what more to life are doing to address it through your ProView proposition, which which I I think is a bit of a game changer, actually. So it'd be good to understand a bit more about ProView and how you see that evolving.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so I think the the problem is is one, you know, it it's as difficult for our own staff and team to you know to support advisors and remember all of the criteria points across different products as it is for the advisors themselves. And we're conscious that that rolls up by number of lenders in the market. So there's a lot for them to remember. So um, core part of our service is giving them the right answer to which products for a particular property would be in play at any given time. Um, what we've spent more time in in our underwriting team trying to work our way through over the last few months in Mortallife is can we utilize technology more to be able to create faster answers and more accurate answers for brokers in that space where it enables them to spend more time on the financial advice, not on whether the product or on the what not on whether the property would be the right fit for certain products. Um, speaking to advisors, they're doing a lot of work to check title, to check proximity to commercial, they're spending a lot of time on Google Maps trying to work out how do they position um some of those things with the customer even prior to the appointment, right? When it's a really early stage lead where they're nurturing the relationship. Um, our goal in in this whole process is to quite quickly use the data that's available in the market, use our vast underwriting expertise to be able to get answers to our visors really quickly to make them the expert early in the process. Because if they're able to, at that early stage, say to a customer, you know, I'm aware that you know there's that there's a particular type of um build type for this property, it's listed, you know, it's near electricity substation, some of the things that can trip you up later in the process. But it takes time for advisors to research themselves, and then they've got to worry about what that impact is across products and lenders. If we if we can find a really easy way to utilize technology to rag status cases quite quickly, give advisors a detailed explanation as to why they've been coloured up that way. You know, green looks great to us, it should be fine. Um, amber, be aware of a couple of those things like you know, listings and um property types, um, or there's something in there that would just block the case, certainly from a more to life perspective. It's handy for the advisor to know that early. It doesn't mean it's a no for the customer, but it means the advisor can prepare the customer for the things that might slow it down later. Yeah. So our challenge, we believe, is to how do we use public data, proprietary data, purchase data that's out there in the market, um, to create a dashboard for our underwriters who are the experts in how to utilize this stuff, to do those pieces of work quickly, use that data quickly to get the answer to an advisor to really create more time for a conversation around the more complex cases. Because that's where advisors really need the help. Our experience is most advisors broadly know what will fit and what will before they get boots on the ground. Certainly when they're in a property, they've got a good idea of of the things that might trip them up. Certainly the you know the regular writers are. Um so if we can free our underwriters up to be able to spend more time on those cases, we think we'll create better outcomes and certainly better conversions over time.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, that's so important, isn't it? I mean, I think all advisors would say the first prize would be to extend product criteria, as you've done with Omni, to try and get more cases through. But second prize as a fast follower would be get us to a quick decision so we spend less time wasted on cases that aren't going to progress, and we can make the right recommendation first time for a customer. There's so much wastage and inefficiency in the market at the moment, I think. So innovations like this are fantastic.

SPEAKER_01:

But it's a shared issue. So we we we've proven that concept between app and offer. Um we're actually not putting the customer through the inconvenience of a survey where we know that there are things in the data points which will um hold the case up or put a stop on it, it certainly informs us before we instruct the survey as to those amber things that that we need to know more about. Um but where it gets quite exciting is you know is is the difference that will make to a business and to a to a um an you know an equity release advisor's day-to-day activity. Because if it takes you know 10 minutes of conversation with us where a case isn't clear if it's going to go through, then that's replicated across a couple of other lenders to say, well, I've found this issue, will you take it? Or will you take it, lender B, you'll let a C. Um, that all stacks up. And across a year, that's thousands of pounds of effort that could be spent in golden time with customers rather than within an admin, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So so one final question before we close, because I mean it's fantastic that Mortallife have got this extensive range of products, but but like you say, you you don't work in a vacuum, you've got other lenders out there with their product ranges as well. It's it's a pretty complex world, isn't it, for advisors to navigate. So what would be your sort of one or two tips for advisors around how they can sort of best navigate the the rapidly evolving later life lending landscape?

SPEAKER_01:

I think the first tip is pick your right partner to lean into the technology. Yeah, that's been a it's certainly a mantra of mine for a for a long time. Um and I think use that technology to its fullest capability. So again, another area that we've we've touched on recently is is you know, products are designed to enable you to be truly able to personalize and shape products to that needs of that particular customer or even to the needs of the properties that that customer owns or the circumstances that they find themselves in from a property perspective. And if if you truly use the technology that's out there, so real life example is you know, a user of air that's occasional that would use QuickCrate, for example, my guidance to that customer, uh that air customer, that advisor would be you are not using a great piece of kit to its fullest potential.

SPEAKER_00:

Agree.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, there's a lot of investment, a lot of time from lenders to build APIs that play back live rates with pricing engines in the background that are sophisticated, that do all of that heavy lifting. So if you use the tech that's there to its fullest advantage, you put all of the customer details in rather than just a quick quote in and out, let's look at a quick grab of the market, um, you will get the fullest range of products available for that customer. And if you can put in that extra layer of detail around postcode, height and weight, um, that extra layer of detail around whether that customer can make payments, um, you will truly get back from that technology the right set of products to make a proper comparison. If you're just doing quick quote, or I'll call it if you're just using a service that isn't that granular, you're potentially missing products that can make a massive difference to customers. So that'd be my tip.

SPEAKER_00:

I think that's a great place to end because it links back to the importance of having those comprehensive conversations up front and then putting all of that information into the technology to get to the best outcome. Because as you said, the reality of the later life lending landscape we have today, the difference in product, whether that's LTV available or the rate available, can be significant depending on that richness of information that you put into sourcing. So I think that's a brilliant tip to leave the membership with. So thank you for the conversation today. And thank you all for joining us for this latest in our series of comprehensive conversations.