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Master Later Life Lending - By Air
The "Master Later Life Lending" podcast is designed specifically for equity release specialists and mainstream mortgage advisors who serve clients over the age of 50. Hosted by industry veteran Paul Glynn, our mission is to equip you with the knowledge and tools needed to excel in the dynamic world of later life lending.
Each episode features in-depth discussions with leading experts, focusing on the unique financial needs of older borrowers. We tackle key issues such as dispelling myths around equity release, exploring the latest product innovations, and understanding the regulatory changes that impact your practice.
Our goal is to empower you to provide the best advice and solutions to your clients, whether they are traditional equity release customers or emerging younger later life borrowers. By staying ahead of market trends and enhancing your expertise, you can build trust with your clients and grow your advisory practice.
Join us on this journey to mastering later life lending, and ensure you’re equipped to meet the evolving needs of your clients. Subscribe now to stay informed, inspired, and ahead in this crucial segment of financial services.
Master Later Life Lending - By Air
Lisa Edgar: Unlocking the Over-50s Market
In this Comprehensive conversation, our CEO Will Hale sits down with Lisa Edgar, Founder and CEO of The Big Window, this episode explores how customer motivations are changing, highlights the emotional and lifestyle goals driving financial decisions, and shows how advisers can connect advice to help clients live fuller, longer lives.
So, welcome to another of our comprehensive conversations. I'm joined today by Lisa Edgar from the Big Window, and we have taken a little bit of time out from the Air Conference, and we're sitting at Track Side at Silverstone, and we're going to talk a little bit about over 50s customers. So, welcome, Lisa, lovely to see you. And you, Will. So, to start off, many of our members won't know a lot about you and about the big window. So, so introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what the big window do.
SPEAKER_01:So, the big window will um is an insight business. Uh, we've been going for just short of 20 years. Um, we have a particular reputation for our work with um older consumers and what happens to you as you age. Um, we also have a vulnerability practice, so we've been working very closely with firms on how they interact with customers who might be in vulnerable circumstances, what that looks like in terms of journey and products. Um, but this is this is our kind of passion. This is your bread and butter.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And you've done quite a lot of work with brands in the later life market, haven't you? So I know sort of today uh sort of you're working with LNG, but but also done quite a lot of work with Canada Life on their Life 100. Is that right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we've worked across the big players uh in this market from LNG, Aviva, Canada Life, um, etc. So uh we're pretty familiar with the with the market. Yeah, it's been a joy to work with um Canada Life really, the work they're doing on Life 100, um, and really kind of understanding what needs to shape up for longevity has been critical, but also you know, with LNG and what they're doing on in the care concierge piece and and how they're shaping their products to suit the needs of people as they get older.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. So many of our members wouldn't have had the privilege of hearing your presentation today at the conference. So perhaps you could just spend a little bit of time, just explain to members why you think the over 50s market is such an attractive one in terms of building their businesses.
SPEAKER_01:I'd be delighted to. Um, Will. I mean, let's start with the numbers. Okay. Um, first of all, you know it's a good place to start, isn't it? When you whenever we're doing headroom analysis for our clients, that's where we start. So, you know, the audience, the population at large is 26 million almost, you know, in that area over 50 at the moment in the UK, and then kind of nigh-on 13 million over 65, you know, really in this heartland for this product area. So the audience is big. So that's the first play. The need and attitudes are kind of changing more broadly to kind of later life products. Um, I think the next generation coming through who've had composite careers, um, who've had to think much more kind of flexibly, you know, it was not been a job for life, um, about how they kind of, you know, marry their careers together, knit them together, and and therefore their kind of thoughts, I think, about asset and debt maybe starting um to change. So a big opportunity coming in the net trench coming through. Um, but also we, as you saw earlier, we change as we age.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Um, you know, we have different sets of needs, or some needs become amplified, and that gives rise to a huge, huge opportunity for the provider community, but also for uh the intermediated community as we as well.
SPEAKER_00:Really interesting. A couple of bits I wanted to pick up there. So I think what you're saying, which resonates with me given sort of the work we do in this market, the the over 50s customer of today, or even the over-65s customer today, looks very different from the over-65s customer of 20, 30 years ago. They they've had a very different journey, haven't they? And their sort of asset and liability profile is probably very different than their predecessors.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. So those people in their 60s today, particularly from about 61 through to about 66, are the wealthiest cohort on almost any ONS measure. So, you know, they have wealth. A lot of that, of course, is tied up in their property. Um, so that is definitely something to consider. But you also point to this kind of changing view. Um, I remember only a few years ago doing some work on um an older customer uh kind of platform, a community zone, the early sort of Facebook type stuff for older people, um, doing some focus groups, and and uh one of the respondents said to me, Can they stop talking to me about pruning roses and start talking to me about the stone roses? And in that moment, what a great absolutely absolutely in that moment. I thought, here if the change comes. Yeah, fantastic.
SPEAKER_00:And I suppose that's a good topic to explore a little bit more because because how would you sort of counsel our members, advisors to think about how they engage with their target audience? What sort of strategies have you seen with other organisations that have worked well? Because I think you do need to engage slightly differently, don't you, with the older demographic than the younger demographic?
SPEAKER_01:Uh I think I think you do. We do change, as I was saying before, as we age. Yeah. Um, we see customers typically going through a sort of U-curve through life. I'm sure many people will have heard of the U-bend of life satisfaction. Um, and that really manifests in what we think is important. So, what we think is important when we're younger, you know, I'm going to be CEO, um I'm going to move up the career ladder. It's all very acquisitional.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, as we get older, and particularly as we start to see the retirement horizon and beyond, our goals become, you know, kind of more emotional, more intrinsic, more family-based. Yes. So appreciating, first of all, what's what changes in what's important to people as they go through those life stages is the first piece.
SPEAKER_00:Just picking up on that point, because I I've come out of quite an interesting um presentation in what we call Compliance Corner, and um Kelly from the uh Equity Release Council was talking about their new code of conduct. And one of the things that they've included in their code of conduct based on some of the customer research they've done is this real focus on trust. So that struck me when you talked about younger customers being perhaps more transactional and maybe older customers being more sort of relationship oriented. Would that would that be a sort of fair conclusion? And therefore, as an advisor, investing that time to have a comprehensive conversation with your customer and build trust seems to me quite a quite an important thing potentially.
SPEAKER_01:I couldn't I couldn't agree more. I've seen the FCA's five-year strategy has trust at the heart of it. Um, a lot of the work that providers are doing around disclosure has trust at the heart of it. And you'll have seen earlier um from my um speech that that kind of confidence and familiarity become so important as you age. And I think there's an essential role to play for the advisor in building that familiarity and off the back of that trust.
SPEAKER_00:So it's probably a good sort of time to move on to another sort of key theme, I think, for the regulator, which is which is vulnerability. And again, I I know you touched on it this morning in your presentation, but but how do you think advisors in this space should should look at vulnerability? Because clearly not all the customers they're going to be seeing are vulnerable at the point of time they're they're saying that, but but also there is a greater propensity for older customers to be to be vulnerable. So so how should advisors think about uh customers in in this space from a vulnerability perspective? And and what sort of uh interventions have you seen work well which can help vulnerable customers still achieve good outcomes?
SPEAKER_01:First of all, it's not it's not easy for the advisor. Um what we see, as you quite rightly say, is that vulnerabilities, particularly around health and life event, as you'd expect, start to upcurve as you age. So your chances of being vulnerable increase. However, with age, your your desire, if you like, to disclose yourself as being vulnerable depresses. So you might experience a vulnerability, but what we get with age is the ability to adapt and cope. We still might have the same needs of an advisor, of a provider, um, but we don't always want to say, I am vulnerable. Um it's really important, in fact, as you age not to not to do that. So I think kind of really getting underneath and getting into a needs and impact conversation. Um, you know, what what do you need that's maybe different to the norm? What do you need that might be um kind of you feel that kind of might be outside of this kind of regular service package? Um, what impact does that have and how can we service that? So I think that's the that's the first first place to do.
SPEAKER_00:So we come back to comprehensive conversations if we're gonna do that. We do, don't we? Always it's all about you know taking that time to explore and and yes and sort of tweeze out, I suppose, so that what's the real drivers and concerns of a customer.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, um, we've spent the last 20 years speaking to advisors as well as consumers, the very best ones, for sure, have comprehensive conversations. They take their time to really get underneath the goals, the needs of the clients they're speaking to, and we know um that preparation is key, it's absolutely kind of fundamental to a sense of optimism, to a sense of happiness, and the advisor plays a critical role in that.
SPEAKER_00:In making them feel prepared, yeah. Yeah, yes, absolutely. Well, we've got lots of sort of really good material and resources within our sort of air academy to help advisors on that, and and it's pleasing to see the take up of those is is increasing. So I think that the message is landing with advisors that vulnerability is a key topic. So we're hearing that too. Yeah, we've just got to keep the momentum, haven't we?
SPEAKER_01:Very much so.
SPEAKER_00:So we talked earlier, you you've done some fantastic work with a number of the big brands sort of in this market, but but when we look at our members, a lot of them are small businesses, you know, some of them handful advisors or even some sort of just just sort of sole proprietors as as well. So I just wondered if there's any um advice you can provide to them in terms of how they can sort of use customer insight, customer research within how they look to build their businesses and build their propositions, and where can they go to to get excuse the the term sort of uh cheap sort of information or cost-effective? Cost-effective. That's a that's a far better term, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. No, I I really like the use of collaboration in your opening uh gambit this morning. Um, well, I I think that's absolutely the message. The providers that we're speaking to are really trying to think about the content that they provide to advisors as part of the CPD process, but also in and of itself, what form that content should be, how it should shape hub. Um so the providers that these advisors are working with, you know, are really cognizant that, you know, this is really valuable information, really valuable insight. Um, they're also cognizant, as are we, that advisors don't have much time, they are time pressured. So, what's the best way to really cut through with that information in short snippets in ways that work with the advisor time scales in their kind of busy uh you know working schedules? Um so that you know that content together with how it's positioned and formatting, formatted is critical.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I think that's a really good message, and uh it's something that's sort of central to our air proposition as well, as you as you sort of picked up from my opening remarks. What we're trying to build is a community and an ecosystem. And you know, the reality is the big brands, the big lenders are the ones who you know have the resources to be able to invest in that, but but generally that they want to make that available to the market to help support the intermediary community, find more customers, deliver better advice, deliver better outcomes. So I think it's about advisors sometimes, just being more proactive, engaging and asking the question or asking for support, and and generally the support is there, the information is there. So it's just about asking the question and having that maybe more inquisitive mindset sometimes.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely, the unknown unknowns, right? You know, if if in that box you can be curious, yes. Um, and we would encourage advisors to be curious because it will help them in the long term. We know um that the later life mortgage market will get bigger. Yeah, we're pretty sure that the shape of a blended retirement will look different. There's a massive role to play for this product, but being curious is going to be the key because advisors will arm themselves with the right information to have not just comprehensive conversations but ones that are relevant and credible.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, absolutely. So, final question. So we're we're in a really interesting period, I think, with the regulator at the moment. So the mood music, as I've touched on before, has changed quite a lot around our sector, but more broadly around financial services. I think the the government agenda around growth has provoked some um sort of interesting self-reflection from the regulator as well. And I'm sure a lot of your clients are using some of your research to inform their responses to regulator and and others to help inform their policy decisions. But if you look at the over 50s customer base, what would you like to see from whether it be government or regulators or trade bodies in order to support those older customers achieve their wants and needs in later life?
SPEAKER_01:Well, first of all, I'd like to see some effort for a changing culture around the property asset. And I think that conversation needs to be propagated both by government and by lenders themselves, and obviously the intermediary channel alongside them. I think it's not enough to say, you know, financial education or how do we educate or inform clients? I think we need to change the perspective around. So if I ask a customer or um in our research, you know, tell me about your lifetime achievements. Yes, often one of the first is paying off my mortgage.
SPEAKER_00:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:Now, if that is seen as a lifetime achievement, how do you come in off the back of that with a conversation around take out another mortgage? Exactly right. So how how do we kind of change the perception of asset and debt so that the combination of those both sides of that equation um becomes much more kind of fluid and one and blended? Yeah. And how do you do that much earlier? That's not just about education, that's a cultural shift in how we see property ownership. And then the second is about incentives. You know, obviously, um I think various uh governments have tripped themselves up, um, particularly at election time. I can think of a particular example around, you know, kind of care funding or later life funding. It perhaps if we flip that on its head and incentivize customers to use their property wealth for care, there might be tax advantages, stamp duty advantages, whatever it might be, um, to get much more into that uh mind space and see it as a positive, then then that could change the perspective around seeing actually all of our assets as a blend to service what might be a longer retirement.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but I mean that that's a fascinating perspective. I think that's always resonated with me, this idea that you've got a personal balance sheet of assets and liabilities, and really you you've got to look at all of those in the same way to achieve your goals. And I think culturally, and actually how regulation has been set up, I mean, you look back at the sort of mortgage market review, it's all around ensuring customers pay off their mortgage.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Whereas I think for for lots of people that's not the reality, or or or it shouldn't necessarily be something you aspire to, it's about living a comfortable, uh fulfilling life, and actually, if that means taking some debt through the different life stages, what why should that be seen as anything you know other than a positive?
SPEAKER_01:Why not? Life is life is for living, and we want people to have their best lives and older lives. We talk in our business not just about lifespan or health span, but about full span. You know, how can you make someone's life fuller for as long as possible? And I think these types of products have the real potential to do that. If if we can get that message about positive aging and seeing assets in the round, you know, and drive that through, that would be fantastic.
SPEAKER_00:Well, what a great place to end, I think. Full spam. That phrase will sit with me. I think you know, if if later life lending can help customers achieve that full spam, then that's a really positive place to be. Well, Lisa, thank you very much for your time. My pleasure. Thank you as well for presenting at the conference. That was a really good session. I'm sure our members took a lot from that. So really appreciate your your time. You're very welcome. Thank you very much. So thank you very much for uh viewing this latest of our comprehensive conversations. Please come back to the website and find out about all our other great content.