Master Later Life Lending - By Air

Modernising Later-Life Client Support: Estate Planning and Legal Advice After the Budget

• Will Hale

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In our second episode of this latest podcast season, Will Hale welcomes Matthew Taylor, Business Development Director at Equilaw and Andrew Parkinson, Director of Air Estate Planning as they explore how advice and business partners can work together to modernise later life support.

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SPEAKER_00:

So, welcome everyone to the latest in Air's series of comprehensive conversations podcasts. I'm Will Hale, CEO of Air, and today I'm joined by Matt Taylor, Business Development Director at Equilaw, and Andy Parkinson, who leads Keyes Estate Planning Business. And today we're here to talk about how we can modernise later life lending support across both estate planning and the sort of legal advice part of the market. So welcome Matt and Andy. Thank you for joining me. And let's jump straight in. So I'm going to start with you, Andy, and just to ask you a little bit about how the estate planning market has developed in recent times. And it'd be helpful maybe if you could talk to our members about the importance of estate planning as part of the broader later life lending journey.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, of course. And uh thanks, Will. So estate planning now, I would say, is part of a long-term journey which is integrated into financial planning, legal drafting, tax strategy, later life lending. It all seems what like one big holistic service. Clients expect seamless support across all of those products and services. We are finding that the average consumer or the average customer is becoming more savvy with regards to things like lasting powers of attorney and trust, which is certainly demonstrated in some of our data insights that we see.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's interesting, Andy, isn't it? I think you know we've seen messaging from the regulator really sort of um highlight the importance of customers having sort of wills and and LPAs in place. And certainly there's been lots of pressure from the regulator to ensure that sort of lenders and sort of pension providers, etc., are addressing that that that gap. But I think for AirS members it's actually a fantastic opportunity, isn't it? I think um, you know, our um if I if I hear the term holistic advice mentioned again, I I I think uh I'll I'll uh I'll uh uh I'll it's something that's uh yeah being mentioned a lot. So um but so for our advisors, I think really thinking about how they can protect customers throughout their later life lending journey is is really important. So just before I sort of move on to Matt, what what are the two or three sort of practical things that advisors can do to make sure that they're seeking that opportunity and reducing risk for customers?

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. So a good starting position is lasting powers of attorney. So anyone entering into a financial transaction um really requires an LPA. Um if that person loses capacity, they are unable to enter into any subsequent transactions, um, contracts, etc. Um, so if you want to safeguard that business from or future business from that customer, um assigned post to LPA is your first port of call. Um there is also a um uh a conception um within financial services as well that the starting point to any financial transaction is actually suggestion of a will, um, because that ultimately will dictate what happens when you do um sadly pass away and and and and leave your estate. So um focus on those two things for me is absolutely paramount. Um there is it is very unlikely that somebody doesn't need a will um or an LPA.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks, Andy. And and Matt, just just get your views on I I know sort of Equila sort of probably in the context of this are concentrating more on the conveyancing side, but some of the themes that Andy has picked up there, is that consistent with with what you're seeing across customers and and the advisors you're dealing with?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I would say so. I think um you know, generally the the public and the end kind of consumer are becoming more aware of uh needing a will, needing an LPA, making sure kind of that those things are tied up. But there's probably still quite a big um kind of gap in understanding, I would say, um, particularly around the use of LPAs and the structure of who the attorneys might be, which would then kind of lead on to um you know issues around drawdown and tenants in common use, where then the surviving spouse or partner um isn't the sole owner of the property. So yeah, I think um there's still plenty to be done in terms of the um well, raising awareness and and signposting those kind of things up front. Um but we're definitely seeing far more clients uh interested in having that kind of conversation through the process of making sure the will side and the LPA side are looked after kind of by the time the case completes.

SPEAKER_00:

And and Matt, are there any sort of watch outs, you know, when when thinking about the conveyancing side of the process in terms of sort of um arrangements that customers have got in place in terms of wills or trusts? Is is there anything you'd call out for advisors to be aware of when w uh when serving customers in this space?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you know, a big a big kind of point for us when we uh take a case on and have a look at the title to begin with is to analyse the the land registry documents to see if there's a form A restriction in that uh basically um signpost, whether there's tenants in common ownership or potentially a trust trust ownership as well. Um, you know, they are solvable kind of problems, but the earlier we know about them the better. Um if there is a trust in place, then the likelihood is we're gonna need to involve the private client solicitor as well to act for the beneficiaries. Um, you know, there's potential tax considerations as well. So um it it it adds more time, usually adds a bit more to the cost base as well, but but understanding and knowing those things up front are vitally important. So kind of the takeaway to advisors would be um if there's any indication the clients might have you know completed some estate planning in the past, get you know, come to us early and get that title downloaded nice and quickly so we can have a look at what's going on behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_00:

And I suppose that's a great message to advisors, isn't it? It opens up that conversation actually about sort of wills and estate planning because it depends on what they have in place already, it could be really important in terms of how that equity release case progresses through the journey. So uh yeah, you know, as we say about a lot of things in air, I think I suppose having a comprehensive conversation up front with the customer about their wills and uh estate planning is is crucial, I think, in that in that. So no, thank you for that. And and and Matt, just sort of moving on maybe to the sort of other side of your business on the on the conveyancing side. So sort of how how's um how's 2025 been for you as as Equilore and uh how how are you finding the sort of cases that you're seeing at the moment from a conveyancing perspective?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's it's still still a challenge out there, I think. Um, you know, gone are the days of 2019 where you know most of the cases we we saw were nice straightforward um what we would classify as a type one case, which basically means it's probably going to complete in three weeks or so from receipt of offer. We're seeing far more um special conditions that need to be satisfied, far more complicated title structures, um shortfalls as well, with the clients having to put some with their own money to to redeem an existing mortgage alongside the the lifetime mortgage, which presents some issues around AML checks and making sure we've kind of looked at the source of those funds. Um capacity and vulnerability. I think we're seeing more and more of those kind of clients that need um some extra TLC. We bulked up our processes around um uh use of third parties, where there's gifting involved, and we do more and more capacity assessments now to make sure we've got a full evidence profile of that of that client to ensure they can enter into the mortgage contract safely. So I don't really see that probably changing as we move into to next year. I think that's just the kind of state of play at the moment. Um cases are generally taking a little bit longer, so that's quite important for brokers to factor in. And again, just to come back to kind of comprehensive conversations, you know, get in contact with your lawyer nice and early so we can have a look at the kind of overlayer problems and signposts nice and early. You know, if a client knows it's gonna cost this much and take this this long long to get completed, then they're kind of gonna be okay with it and have a good journey. It's just those nasty surprises that tend to derail things a little bit.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, that insight I think concurs with the numbers we saw published from the Equity Release Council recently in terms of business volumes in the market. So, you know, whilst we're seeing an increase in in lending value, I think customer numbers are still um sort of slightly depressed sort of year on year. So I think that does point to larger but perhaps more complex cases in in the market. And uh, Andy, you obviously get most of your referrals from advisors who are advising on lifetime mortgage. So do you see the same trend? I I suppose you might look at this slightly differently because these larger, more complex cases are perhaps um slightly uh better opportunities in some ways from an estate planning perspective. Would that be right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, certainly the the more complex the estate, the more security and protection an individual or a couple may need. Um so, yeah, absolutely. Um I think in in terms of what we've seen, um so for me, firstly, the estate planning market grew um this year versus previous year. Um, it's now worth um reportedly uh three billion. So we are we are aware that there is certainly a need for estate planning services. Um what we find in terms of the advice, um so the um equity advisor uh cases that come through is that they've already received obviously uh market leading advice around um uh equity release. Um they've had some conversations around the estate planning, um, which then seamlessly moves to us um so we can then talk to them um with with you know with confidence and and uh at length around their uh their estate planning needs.

SPEAKER_00:

And I suppose I'd be uh uh I mean I'll I'll come I'll come to Matt again in a minute, but I suppose that the message we always sort of say to members um of there is the benefits of using a specialist conveyancer in this market because of the complexities in this space rather than you know maybe a local solicitor. And I suppose the same applies on the state planning as well. Whilst local solicitors will provide the service, working with an expert who understands how estate planning can dovetail with later life lending, I I suppose is something that you would say is is pretty important in this part of the market?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, for me it's it's absolutely paramount that the the equity release advice is closely associated with the estate planning advice. Um, because obviously there are assets that are being dealt with by both sides, um, and there are certain protections that an estate planner would need to consider around the um the equity release. Um I mean, just talking about the format that uh that was mentioned earlier, um, we have great relationships with all our solicitors. Um we have we have the ability to notify the solicitor of what that format is, what it represents, what it means for the customer as part of that process. I'm guessing that many high street solicitors do not have those relationships and have that that kind of um process built in.

SPEAKER_00:

Right, interesting. And and Matt, do you sort of see that as well? That I suppose, again, it's a key theme we talk about quite a lot in this sector, the importance of all the different stakeholders collaborating sort of closely in order to work together to get a the most efficient journey and ultimately the right outcome for the customer. So, how do you see that collaboration working well in practice?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's you know, the there's plenty of data that we can sort of furnish from from INACT and and you know, lender solicitors have acted in the past around um how much quicker a specialist uh commencing firm are and and and cost as well in terms of the average kind of unit price. Um, and it's pretty clear that using the specialist firm is a lot quicker and generally a lot cheaper for clients. Um, and also the the kind of relationship piece that you touched on there as well. You know, there is a type of representation situation here. You've got a client solicitor like us, or anyone else in the market, and then in act acting for the lenders at the moment, um you know being able to enter into dialogue with the legal directors there and to manage pipeline and get decisions made on kind of sticky cases is so important, which you know you probably just wouldn't get from a local law firm because they're not gonna have those conversation channels. So, yeah, it's vitally important that um whoever you you you know you deal with and use on the client side you have a good relationship with um because ultimately it's gonna be a better client journey, um, probably lead to you know more referrals and and better commercial kind of outlook going forward. So that can only be you know a good thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and and just and just sort of building on that, I suppose the relationship piece is absolutely key, but but I suppose the the other side of the coin in terms of driving sort of efficiency and reducing lag times, etc., in the process is is down to technology. And and I know that at Equilaw you've made sort of consistent investment in technology to try and sort of drive that efficiency sort of through the journey. Do you do you want to talk a little bit about sort of the areas particularly you've invested in and sort of where where you maybe see your technology roadmap going in the in in the in the sort of um months and years ahead?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's um it's definitely something that that we've we focused on as a as a business um mainly to kind of reduce some of the more mundane, robotic, kind of repetitive tasks and allowing our staff to add the more kind of personal touch to um to the client journey, and also do some of the things you still ultimately need to do over the phone these days, which is chase redemption statements down and um you know pester management companies and things like that for information. So we've kind of um split our technology focus into kind of the initial process that we we deal with the client um in terms of the instruction and the onboarding. We can land registry, triage lots of things now automatically. We can signpost a whole load of things to clients straight away through the portal that we have that they can access. Um and then once we get a mortgage offer in and we move into kind of stage two, we've got a load of automated tools to provide and generate the legal report and advice for clients. So that allows our staff to not have to move information from a Canada Life offer into our legal report, a legal and general offer, yada yada yada. Um so they're there to make sure the advice is correct and kind of check the last bits and pieces off and save ourselves probably half an hour, 45 minutes in each case, um, without having to repeat copy information over from Ts and C's and mortgage offer docs. Around the mobile solicitor piece as well. So we've got agents that are all dotted around England and Wales, they they use um uh a bespoke portal so they can scan documents back to us within five minutes of the meeting finishing. So we've got access and visibility to those docs straight away. Um we still need the physical docs to land um on our doorstep because we still need wet signatures on some of the Mauka's deeds and other docs, but it allows us to make sure it's all that and correct so we can um signpost the potential completion data a lot quicker because we know that they work in the right place. Um next year, I think for us will be around um improving the communication or the uh the options for communication channels to clients and brokers. So we're looking at kind of a portal and a suite of different um methods that include WhatsApp, text, Facebook Messenger, and all these kind of modern ways of updating clients and allowing them to access their farther on the go. Because we are seeing far more and more clients still working. You know, we don't want to be playing phone tag with them while they're running around the office trying to find somebody quiet to speak to us. So, you know, let's do it in a way that allows them the most efficient and um easier way of communication with us. Um so yeah, that's kind of probably where we're we're looking next year, plus bulking up some of our more um uh sort of vulnerability focused and empathy focused tools where we'll listen into calls and provide some kind of red flags, you know, quickly, uh which would again add some value up front.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean it it's interesting to hear hear that, Matt. I think the picture you've painted there sort of for me sort of represents the sort of model that that that I think is sort of best place for success in this market. It's that in using technology not to replace people but to empower people to do more of the relationship stuff, do more of the communication stuff. So um I again I really don't see we're gonna move to a fully automated world in these areas anytime soon. But if we can make people more efficient and take some friction out of the journey, that that that makes perfect sense. And and on that theme, Andy, coming to you, uh you know, again, it wouldn't be a podcast without mentioning AI, would it? So uh I'm gonna talk a little bit about AI because I know that you've started to introduce some AI processes into your business, Andy. So it'd be good to to hear a little bit about that. And um and also I believe there's sort of changes of foot in the um in the area of wills around removing the requirement for um uh for for for wet signatures. You know, Matt talked about wet signatures in his place, but I think there's opportunities emerging, isn't there, in the state planning where we can sort of take some of some of that friction away. So do you want to talk a little bit about those themes? So so AI and and also sort of efficiencies more broadly.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, sure. Um so I mean, first and foremost, we we it's not our intention to um replace human judgment with AI. I think when you're providing that kind of advice service, you you you really do need to tune into um your instincts with customers. Um so what we we have done um is essentially used, leveraged the AI um agents within the business to um essentially high highlight the things like missing information, um, ensure that documents are handled correctly, um risk management flags, um which will enable us to then manually and humanly uh investigate certain things. So So very similar to Matt, we're just using it at the moment as a support to remove friction and drive efficiency. And so far so good. We're aware that there is an arms race with regards to AI, but you know, it's ensure that we don't over-engineer these things so we we miss um that human connection with our customers, which is um absolutely important. Um in terms of the um the exciting new developments around um wills and the digitization of wills, um the government have proposed um uh a uh new legislation which is the the bill, the sorry the wills bill currently, um which hopefully will receive assent next year at some stage, um which will enable the um digitisation of wills. So um goodbye wet signatures um and hello um digitized signature. Um and there's a few other things as well that's that's quite interesting. Um test datas um can be 16 rather than 18, um, and there's there's there's there's other uh components of that, but um that is a game changer, it's replacing 200-year-old legislation and brings estate planning back you know into the 21st century.

SPEAKER_00:

That's interesting, Andy. And and just going back to your piece on AI, I again talking to um sort of their members, it AI is an area I think that that a lot of advisors or firms are keen to embrace, but but they're a bit nervous about the risks and and they're not quite sure about where to start. You know, from your experiences, have you got any sort of tips for advisors as to how they might sort of start to embrace some of the benefits, but but still being sort of cognizant of the risks?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. So there are plenty of online courses um that will help you understand how to essentially program um an agent, um, and the costs aren't might aren't huge. Um, in terms of the process of fine-tuning that agent, you have to apply real-life um case studies. Um, and the ultimate sort of um requirement is to test, test, test. Make sure that you're not rolling out something that's not correct for your business um or puts your business at risk. So have a really robust um test strategy um before going live um with any kind of volume, um, would be my advice.

SPEAKER_00:

And and and Matt, bringing you in there, it is AI something that that Ecuador are looking at? And and just building on that risk piece again, a lot a lot of sort of commentary I've seen is uh needing to be really cognizant of open AI models where your data is sort of being shared sort of to external sources and how you sort of keep control of that is is that again something that that as Equila you sort of your your cognizance of as well?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it is, and it's certainly been kind of a a challenge in terms of making sure that um the the ownership of the data and you know where that sits is is still completely with with us. Um you know, I mentioned the mortgage automation tool um earlier. We've also got a document classification tool which uses AI to analyze pretty much every bit of um paperwork that might come into the business, whether that's a mortgage offer, whether that's a redemption statement, whether that's a buildings insurance policy, um to uh basically save save the start at the time we're doing it. So it can be added to clients' files and assessed and analysed um kind of instantly, really. So that's that's where we use AI. You know, we've uh actually started transcribing some of our phone calls now with clients into the broker portal so they can actually see instead of a phone call from Equilore to um you know a management company and see what it was we were talking to them about, you know, it's usually us chasing something. So that allows the broker some peace of mind that you know the cases progress and then they can see kind of where um you know where the where the gaps might lie in terms of the information we still need. So yeah, the monitoring and controlling of that data is really, really important, and that's kind of why we've sort of built everything so we're not overly reliant on kind of off-the-shelf products.

SPEAKER_00:

Good stuff. And and Matt, just just sticking with you in and just sort of thinking more broadly about the market. We we we were talking just before this podcast about sort of um the outturn for 2025, and it you know, it does feel it's been a fairly challenging year again for the later life sector. But you know, on the horizon, I think we've got some really positive mood music um emerging from the regulator on the back of the um the discussion paper around the future of the mortgage market, and I think arguably, you know, some of the themes coming out of the recent budget um could be quite helpful in terms of um driving some demand into our sector. What what what would your views be on the sort of current state of the market and you know looking into 2026? What would be your your your thoughts on how we might see things evolve?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think just touching on the budget, there was there's probably nothing too scary in there for for our little world and industry. So, like you say, there's probably some positives to come out of that. Um, you know, rates, well, who knows exactly what happened with those, but yeah, they might well um see see some some kind of like benefit there as we go into 2026, which will undoubtedly help. I think the big challenge is we all know there's the the the clients are out there, it's it's how we can um bring in non-um LTM specialists or equity release specialists to our market to um uh bring clients to the table that would probably not go anywhere or not be able to find a solution for them. So whether that's through you know sourcing platforms like like Air and support groups and and mortgage clubs or networks, we need to upskill those non-LTM specialists to be flagging signposting and um have a safe referral process for um for clients to explore uh non-traditional kinds of mortgages. So yeah, I think that's kind of where where we see the market going next year. Um there's certainly you know plenty of potential clients out there, it's just how we we get access to them and make sure they understand their options fully.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I agree. It's definitely a distribution challenge. I think um I think if we can get more of those mainstream mortgage advisors really engaged into our sector, then um that's going to be you know the catalyst for driving the growth. And I think if you layer on top of that, you know, if we can make sort of wealth managers and generous IFAs um aware of you know how property wealth can be used within a more holistic financial plan and drive more industrialized referral mechanisms, I think all of that you know can help support the market. And you know, certainly as air, we want to do our bit to support advisors in in that space as well. But but Andy, you know, coming to you, I suppose you know we we have seen the flat market for a couple of years now, but and therefore I think for advisors, you know, those it's really important that you're optimizing every opportunity that you do have and maximising the sort of revenue from each of those customers that you are seeing. And you know, it still you know, it still staggers me that a lot of the advisors in this space aren't really engaging actively in the sort of estate planning market. So, you know, just paint a picture around commercially what what that can mean for advisors and how they can sort of put put referral arrangements in place.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, sure. Um so yeah, I mean I I'm staggered too, Will. Um, I mean, having LPAs um in the mix alone um does offer a level of protection for those advisors for for future transactions as I mentioned earlier. Um I I think in terms of the commercials, um, depending obviously who you use, um, you can probably expect anywhere between five and a thousand pounds in in commission, um, depending obviously on if it's a single customer or if it's a couple, etc., and what what's required. Um and you know, this isn't uh this isn't ACOI or this is obviously legal services, this is uh you know, extremely important documentation that everyone over 18 really should have. Um so it's uh it's imperative, in my opinion, um, to make sure that um you at least sign post those customers to a reputable um estate planning business. Um and in and in terms of you know how easily that is done, um, so from from our point of view, for example, we can onboard um a an advisor within 24 hours very very easily.

SPEAKER_00:

And and Andy, you you know, the the those income levels I think you know would be very attractive to lots of advisors, sort of 500 pounds to a thousand pounds in terms of in terms of commission. And you know, what what do you typically see in terms of um sort of conversion through the funnel? I I know you know with my key advice hat on, we probably refer 50% of our equity release customers, we probably you probably convert 50% of those into a in into a sale of either an LP PA or a Will or indeed both. Is it are those the sort of conversion rates and that that advisors should expect?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. Um and it all depends on how much time and effort that advisors put into getting the customer sort of um oriented to having a um estate planning conversation. Um so there is a range. Um the better um the the better advisors in terms of conversion and therefore the high commission, um, they will prepare the customers very well for that conversation and they'll reap they'll reap the rewards for it because ultimately the customers going into an estate planning conversation uh prepared.

SPEAKER_00:

Good. Thanks, Andy. So guys, I think we're coming to the end of our session today, but but just before we leave, it'd be great to again sort of um focus on on the year ahead. And and and Matt, just just maybe in your closing remarks, sort of what what are the real areas for of focus for Equilaw next year? And and again, if you had an ask of advisors for next year and of theirs members, sort of what what would that be?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I I think from um a wish list uh of of what uh we could we could request from advisors, um just joining up the the the conveyancing process and the involvement of um us or whoever the client solicitor is going to be from from day one, you know, really get us involved, whether that's from a check-in land registry point of view, um you know, looking at what what debts and things might be secured on the title, uh what special conditions might well be coming down the track if there's estate rent charges and uh and adopted roads and things like that that we can see and try and create a much more harmonious relationship between the solicitor, the advisor and the client. Um you know, we usually come into the to the journey later on, that's understandable, you know, once the product's been recommended and um the ER's deemed suitable for the client. But in terms of involving us and what we're going to do, I think we can really improve on that over the next coming years, um, which will only increase the the quality of the client journey, will only increase the speed of turnaround, um, and ultimately, you know, make more more clients happier and and smilier once they've they've got their money at completion.

SPEAKER_00:

Um Super. Well that sounds like uh a good uh a good place to uh to uh get to next year if we can. And and Andy, from your side, just uh just a closing thought. So what would your one ask be of um AIS members in terms of how they should engage with estate planning next year?

SPEAKER_01:

I think my one ask is to is to talk. I mean, let's let's have a discussion around your thoughts, experiences, wishes around estate planning, and let's have that that initial first conversation. Um you never know where it might where it might go, where it might lead. Um, but I think you know it is definitely a conversation you can't ignore. Um my understanding is that the FCA are beginning to develop a view that lasting powers of attorney and bereavement services are incredibly important um to to consumers. So, you know, act now. Um just drop me a line over the you know, I'm happy to discuss these things over the telephone, on a Teams, over email. Um you know, we we're just we're just keen to have that conversation.

SPEAKER_00:

I think that's a great place to end. I think I think you know, we all acknowledge that this market is changing, and I think advisors need to be curious and and need to accept that the status quo is you know needs to be challenged, I think, and whether it's sort of looking differently at how you're engaging with convincing partners or thinking about new opportunities such as estate planning. I think this is a great time of the year, isn't it, to start sort of thinking about that and planning for 2026. So I think that brings us to the end today. Just to say thank you again to to both Matt and Andy for joining me and thank you, sort of Matt, in particular, for Equilaw's sort of support for um for AIR's members and for Air over the course of 2025. It's it's really much appreciated. And uh and I wish you both a very sort of happy Christmas and successful new year. And uh thank you to everyone for listening. Um, this is the latest of our podcast series in our comprehensive conversations. Look forward to seeing you next time.